Dear Estes,

[GRIFFIN]

Please re-release the Phoenix Missle, so people stop buying them for riduculous prices on E-bay

Thanks,
Jason

[RocketManDan]

[rokitflite]

Yes Estes, Please do that (but warn me first so I can sell mine on Ebay).

Thanks.

[Gary Byrum]

.....and while you're at it, please look into the Saturn 1B as well?

[NAR29996]

1/100 scale, k?

[jazzviper1]

.....and while you're at it, please look into the Saturn 1B as well?

I second the Saturn 1B

PLEASE!!!!!!!

[Evo666]

For me the Shadow. I can clone this easily but sometimes I like it out of a kit.

[cbrarick]

I've got two I'm willing to discount $2,420...

GEEZ he doesn't even give free shipping?? Wonder if he knows you can get the kit now?

[Boosterdude]

Please re-release the Phoenix Missle, so people stop buying them for riduculous prices on E-bay

Thanks,
Jason

I have to laugh at the prices people pay for a model that takes you less than an hour to cut the parts for. You can get the nose cone and decals, so I don't get it.

[paul.nortness]

That is one of the easiest kits in the world to clone.

[UrbanKnight]

It sounds like Estes should start acting like Disney animation by releasing a rocket model for a year and then putting it in "the vault" for a while before releasing it for a short time again.

[DizWolf]

I've snapped up a few oop kits recently. One was a Phoenix for about $40, and another was a Shadow for...well...we'll mark it twice retail and call it a day. Sure, I could have cut the parts easily. I've made several Phoenix's from parts, it's not hard at all. I cloned the shadow(optima) out of bluetube and a 29mm mount for about the same price I paid for the kit. I just cloned an SBB from plans I found online, and it took about an hour to get the parts set to assemble.

So why on earth would I pay more? It's not like I need the instructions. It's not like I can't clone the kits. The Phoenix wasn't too high and was mostly an impulse. But I really looked for that Shadow, and paid WAY more than the parts are worth.

The only logical explanation I can come up with, is that some of us old geezers want to re-live part of our youth with these kits. Cloning it just isn't the same feeling as opening a kit and building it.

However, I do agree both these kits should be offered again. I'd love to see a TTW Optima with plywood fins and a 3x24mm mount

[Gary Byrum]

I've snapped up a few oop kits recently. One was a Phoenix for about $40, and another was a Shadow for...well...we'll mark it twice retail and call it a day. Sure, I could have cut the parts easily. I've made several Phoenix's from parts, it's not hard at all. I cloned the shadow(optima) out of bluetube and a 29mm mount for about the same price I paid for the kit. I just cloned an SBB from plans I found online, and it took about an hour to get the parts set to assemble.

So why on earth would I pay more? It's not like I need the instructions. It's not like I can't clone the kits. The Phoenix wasn't too high and was mostly an impulse. But I really looked for that Shadow, and paid WAY more than the parts are worth.

The only logical explanation I can come up with, is that some of us old geezers want to re-live part of our youth with these kits. Cloning it just isn't the same feeling as opening a kit and building it.

However, I do agree both these kits should be offered again. I'd love to see a TTW Optima with plywood fins and a 3x24mm mount

Then maybe you'd be interested in this.....
http://www.amazon.com/ESTES-APOLLO-S...3868951&sr=8-8

[Marc_G]

...OK...as a general reply regarding nose cones, we have 7 nose cone assortment packs:

303160 NC-5 (5 pack)
303161 NC-20 (4 pack)
303162 NC-50 (5 pack)
303163 NC-55 (4 pack)
303164 NC-56 (4 pack)
303165 NC-80 (single)

...these are available at retail on online...is there something else you guys are asking for?

Mike

Hi Mike,

We would like to be able to buy a specific type of nose cone rather than a random pack of cones for a particular BT diameter.

So lets say I want some Red Max cones. PNC-60AH if I recall correctly. Currently there's no way to order them separately. If I buy the pack of PNC-60 cones maybe I will get an AH but probably not. So please make packs of specific type cone types available.

There is a significant unmet need here. Balsa cones of all shapes and sizes are available from many sources but the plastic ones (that I often prefer) can't currently be specifically ordered except for a few of the most common ones.

So if you offered a two or four pack of for example PNC-60AH and the various other cones you would make us happy! I really want some extra mini honest john cones and some Vagabond cones!

If the packaging of these for distribution doesn't look profitable enough please consider selling them in bulk to someone that could repackage in small numbers and sell retail.

Thanks for listening.

Marc

[be69ar]

Hi Mike,

We would like to be able to buy a specific type of nose cone rather than a random pack of cones for a particular BT diameter.

So lets say I want some Red Max cones. PNC-60AH if I recall correctly. Currently there's no way to order them separately. If I buy the pack of PNC-60 cones maybe I will get an AH but probably not. So please make packs of specific type cone types available.

There is a significant unmet need here. Balsa cones of all shapes and sizes are available from many sources but the plastic ones (that I often prefer) can't currently be specifically ordered except for a few of the most common ones.

So if you offered a two or four pack of for example PNC-60AH and the various other cones you would make us happy! I really want some extra mini honest john cones and some Vagabond cones!

If the packaging of these for distribution doesn't look profitable enough please consider selling them in bulk to someone that could repackage in small numbers and sell retail.

Thanks for listening.

Marc

...OK...so assortments of plastic/blow mold nose cones are not what you'd like...instead you'd like specific nose cones in small quantities (for the most part, packing singles would be out of the question...except maybe the 80 sizes)...well, I'll take that as a suggestion and see what we can do. However, be advised that it will take some time...I have existing inventory to dispose of and then there is the whole creating a BOM, quoting, ordering and shipping process to go through...it would be fall 2012 at the earlist and perhaps next winter before we could accomplish such a change...but I will look into it.
Mike

[Marc_G]

Thanks Mike for looking into it. Note the assortment packs you currently have don't need to go away... probably lots of people like the random effect. But serious builders want access to specific cones. And I understand single packs are impractical... reasonably priced 3 or 4 packs or whatever would be fine. I mean seriously ... who can build just one of their great design!!

I'm in marketing so I understand the lengthy product cycle. I suggest prioritizing special cones at the larger end of the spectrum... bt-60 and 80 plastic cones are the most different from the easily available balsa equivalents. Also the unique smaller ones like the mini HoJo cone. Biggest likelihood of demand.

Marc

[Marc_G]

That RL style cone from Vagabond is awesome even if plagued by QC issues on the mold lines. A definite favorite!

[caveduck]

++ for individual NC type availability (fine with me if they are packaged N at a time for economic reasons). Once upon a time you could order just about any part Estes used in production; that was one of the grand things about the catalog. Now there seem to be some parts for which the only way to get an authentic part is to buy a whole kit. The random assortment packs of NCs per BT size also makes it very expensive to get a few of a desired specific type.

As a biz guy I understand the time/effort/$ required to generate new packaging, SKUs, clear old inventory, etc, but if it moves in that direction in the long run it would probably make quite a few people around here happy.

BTW thanks once again for listening to us hardcore types

[thobin]

Not just the standard nose cones the specialty ones like the interceptor and all the spaceship types that have cockpits those are what we can’t replace with the balsa cones out there today.

If we lose an alpha cone it’s no biggy. But when your interceptor nose cone floats away on an 18 inch chute and is now some were in Kansas. You only have one option, buy a whole new rocket. And your Nimbus nose cone explodes on impact on the side walk after a ejection malfunction. There is no option to fix that.

I hope you don’t think we are coming down on you. I think I can speak for all of us that we are thrilled that you care and are asking questions and really taking an interest in what we have to say, All of us grew up Launching Estes rockets, and we are looking forward to launching them till we die.

TA

[be69ar]

++ for individual NC type availability (fine with me if they are packaged N at a time for economic reasons). Once upon a time you could order just about any part Estes used in production; that was one of the grand things about the catalog. Now there seem to be some parts for which the only way to get an authentic part is to buy a whole kit. The random assortment packs of NCs per BT size also makes it very expensive to get a few of a desired specific type.

As a biz guy I understand the time/effort/$ required to generate new packaging, SKUs, clear old inventory, etc, but if it moves in that direction in the long run it would probably make quite a few people around here happy.

BTW thanks once again for listening to us hardcore types

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

[GRIFFIN]

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

Awwe-Parts-Schmarts......This thread was about the Phoenix. When will the Phoenix rise again!?!?!

J/K - Thanks for all the feedback and info. I look forward to ANY new additions to the Estes line up.

Jason

[caveduck]

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

Thanks for the perspective Mike. I always knew the parts business was never much to get excited about from a financial standpoint (even heard it once directly from Vern), but I didn't know it had gotten *that* small. It probably makes more sense to let the smaller players in the rocket ecology make parts for the remaining cadre of "true hobbyists". But every so often you guys make some interesting part that requires fancy tooling (think MIRV staging adapter, Odyssey NC, Saturn wrappers,...) and it gives us fits.

[Marc_G]

From my perspective, the parts business (engine hooks, centering rings, body tubes, balsa cones) is well-served with existing vendors so as a consumer I agree... stick the the relatively unique parts like the plastic nose cones particularly those not available from others!

Other than that, focus on in this order:
1. Engines!
2. kits, and
3. Nice tools like the fin attachment jig... though I've got a beef about its design!

[luke strawwalker]

...one final comment...as it relates to Estes of days gone by, it is extremely unlikely that we will ever get into the rocket parts business again...or more accurately, the individual parts business that was part of what made Estes "the" rocket company of the day. I can absolutely tell you that our parts business (before we stopped carrying parts) was terrible...not amounting to $5,000 a year in sales and we had a huge number of SKU's on the shelves. I know and understand its a loss to you guys, but the prior management just squashed the whole program and given the overall sales of "builders kits", I would have a hard time arguing that we should start to sell individual, small parts again...though assortments might be an option that I can look into, but while I hear you loud and clear, parts as most of you remember or would like to see again is probably not much of an option.
Have a great New Year and I do thank you for your comments and suggestions and I will continue to watch, read and respond when I can....Mike

I remember the builder's special, the box assortment of parts that was available for scratchbuilding. I can understand the hassle of maintaining a huge inventory of separate parts with little/no margin makes it not worthwhile when one considers the labor costs and overhead and time devoted to it, but the box assortments seems a good way to overcome most of the negatives you mentioned... say 3-4 (at most) assortments focusing on various genre's or something perhaps... say a "cockpit assortment" of cones and various tubes and spare parts assembled into a box assortment as a design-yer-own "sci-fi" rocket builder's special... maybe another one featuring all the Estes military missile cones and such, with some tubes and parts as a "military" builder's special, and another with the most popular large sport kit cones, perhaps a fourth focusing on small kit cones, both with appropriate tubes and various/sundry parts... I'm thinking just an assortment of rings/hooks/screw eyes, a couple parachute kits/streamer packs, etc... nothing particularly intricate... mainly enough to justify a profitable price point...

That would be nice to see and wouldn't seem to break the bank on inventory maintenance, time, labor, etc...

Later and thanks for everything yall are doing at the NEW Estes!

OL JR

[be69ar]

I remember the builder's special, the box assortment of parts that was available for scratchbuilding. I can understand the hassle of maintaining a huge inventory of separate parts with little/no margin makes it not worthwhile when one considers the labor costs and overhead and time devoted to it, but the box assortments seems a good way to overcome most of the negatives you mentioned... say 3-4 (at most) assortments focusing on various genre's or something perhaps... say a "cockpit assortment" of cones and various tubes and spare parts assembled into a box assortment as a design-yer-own "sci-fi" rocket builder's special... maybe another one featuring all the Estes military missile cones and such, with some tubes and parts as a "military" builder's special, and another with the most popular large sport kit cones, perhaps a fourth focusing on small kit cones, both with appropriate tubes and various/sundry parts... I'm thinking just an assortment of rings/hooks/screw eyes, a couple parachute kits/streamer packs, etc... nothing particularly intricate... mainly enough to justify a profitable price point...

That would be nice to see and wouldn't seem to break the bank on inventory maintenance, time, labor, etc...

Later and thanks for everything yall are doing at the NEW Estes!

OL JR

...your comment about the "builders special"...or designers special that we did for a long time brings up a new topic. Back in the day, a designers special was usually made up from a lot of left over parts from various production runs. Sometimes they were pretty neat, other times they sucked depending on what was left to stuff in there. I am pleased to tell you that PN 1980 a brand new "desingers Special" will be available in April. It was planned for the end of 2011, but we have been moving to tri linqual packaging on all our products and converting the Rocket Guide to 3 languages has taken some time (we want to get the text and images squared up). Now for the really good news, this box contains 110 or 113 speparate parts...not random left overs, but parts like green adapter rings, laser cut centering rings, an assortment of 18" body tubes, nose cones that fit those body tubes, couplers, engine hooks (standard and D), motor tubes, chutes, balsa sheets, some paper template sheets for shrouds...well, you get the idea...there is a lot of very usable material in this new set that I think will help fill the gap for some missing parts. If you look at just the body tubes, engine hooks, motor mounts, this set can build at 8 complete rockets. But if you look at the overall parts count and an individuals creativity, you could look at hundreds if not thousands of possible combinations. Bad news...won't be cheap...current retail is set at $79.99 and we are trying to hold that through 2012...but if you look at a cost per item, I think it averages out to about $.72 a part...which will be good for some things (nose cones, body tubes) and not so good for other parts...like engine hooks. I hope you can see the overall value and real changes that I/we made to the old "designers special" to make this a useful addition to your building materials...not just a hodge podge of left over crap (oops, sorry, shouldn't use such unflattering terms).

Mike

[Marc_G]

Bummer, but understandable. Thanks for the reply. It's great having you here, by the way

[UrbanKnight]

You say that it can build 8 rockets, which would come to $10 per rocket. Not bad at all for a variety of scratch built fun.

It's a shame that a craft store would find it better to stick to finished or almost finished products, but I have noticed that they keep putting more and more finished crafts "handmade in (insert 3rd world country here)" instead of parts and instructions. That's the world of instant gratification we live in.

[F=MAn]

Please cancel the maxi alpha 3 it (is a piece of junk.) 1 F79 and all the fins fell off????? And reinstate the phoenix.....

[Marc_G]

You say that it can build 8 rockets, which would come to $10 per rocket. Not bad at all for a variety of scratch built fun.

I think when it comes out, it should kick off a contest where each person gets to craft rocket(s) using the parts in the box and must use ALL parts, with no parts other than what's in the box...

[SCIGS30]

Estes is definitely offering some nice products and I cannot wait to by them. Here is the designer pack