Applying paper skins to fins

I know there is a lot of different ways of doing this. I for one use wood glue and spread it very thin and apply the paper skins in that fashion working quickly. I know others have used the self adhesive label paper.

Has anyone tried using the 3M Spray adhesive I believe it's #77. I figure after it dries trim the edges and clean them up by sanding and apply a bead of thin CA to secure the edges. It would probably be less chance of the balsa warping because of lack of water in the adhesive, just not sure about the strength of the bond?

I'm just looking for a cleaner and quicker way of doing this procedure.

Quick, cheap, easy and clean, and not too worried about covering sharp edges - then nothing beats label paper. Spray adhesive is messy.

Daddyisabar said:

Quick, cheap, easy and clean, and not too worried about covering sharp edges - then nothing beats label paper. Spray adhesive is messy.

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but it will work correct? I can't see it making more of a mess than using than wood glue. At least your fingers don't get glue all over them

RocketManDan said:

but it will work correct? I can't see it making more of a mess than using than wood glue. At least your fingers don't get glue all over them

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Actually, I usually do get the glue everywhere - 3M #77 adhesive has a HUGE overspray problem. Given that, yes, if you coat both the paper and the fin with the #77 and let it dry before putting the paper on the fin, the fin will be permanently bonded to the paper. It is much like rubber cement - coat one surface and apply while wet and the paper can be removed. Apply to both, let dry and then put them together and they will NEVER come apart.

Of course, another possibility is to use CA on the whole surface of the paper fin cover (do this in a well ventilated area). The resulting surface will be super tough and, once sanded, slick as glass.

Printer paper, wood glue, squeegee, pressure clamps. Easy cheesy breezy.

gpoehlein said:

Actually, I usually do get the glue everywhere - 3M #77 adhesive has a HUGE overspray problem. Given that, yes, if you coat both the paper and the fin with the #77 and let it dry before putting the paper on the fin, the fin will be permanently bonded to the paper. It is much like rubber cement - coat one surface and apply while wet and the paper can be removed. Apply to both, let dry and then put them together and they will NEVER come apart.

Of course, another possibility is to use CA on the whole surface of the paper fin cover (do this in a well ventilated area). The resulting surface will be super tough and, once sanded, slick as glass.

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I guess it could be messy, but I never had an issue with it. I used #77 when cutting patterns out on balsa...namely fins and I never made a mess. I sprayed in the garage and was pretty close to my work. I just used an old milk crate and place the paper fin pattern on the crate and sprayed it and then pressed it onto the wood. Cut it out and peeled it back. I think maybe using square over sized pieces of paper and covering the fin shape completely might make it easier to handle and cleaner?

I don't see the fascination with wood glue-- for bonding paper to balsa white glue is at least as strong if not stronger.

There shouldn't be a mess if done correctly. It only takes a little glue spread VERY VERY thin to bond printer paper to the average size fin... I usually use a drop about 1/4 to about 3/8 inch across to bond paper to one side of a fin about the size of a Mean Machine or Big Bertha fin, which is probably what I'd consider an "average" size rocket fin...

I cut my fins, stack sand them, sand in any desired airfoil, usually round leading edge teardrop aft edge (depending on the rocket). Grab a couple sheets of paper out of the printer. Lay the fin with the leading edge facing the center of the paper, about an inch from the edge of the paper, trace it lightly with a pencil, roll the fin over the leading edge (making sure it doesn't slip) and trace it lightly again. Put the drop of glue in the center of the outlines, and spread it with a finger COMPLETELY over the entire outlined surface area, and extending a bit past it all the way around, place the fin down on the outline, and press firmly, apply glue to the second outline, spread very thin and evenly again, completely covering the outline and going past it some, and then carefully fold the fin over the leading edge onto the other outline, holding the fin and paper tightly so there aren't any wrinkles. Press down firmly. Using a Sharpie marker or something else round and smooth, burnish down the paper onto the fin and squeeze any excess glue out around the edges, starting from the center of the leading edge and working outwards toward the root, tip, and trailing edges. Go around the edges of the fin, burnishing the paper down to itself all the way around the fin, flip and repeat for the other side. THE most important thing is keeping a VERY VERY THIN layer of glue applied to the paper-- excess glue will only WEAKEN THE BOND and WEAKEN THE PAPER, creating wrinkles and tears in the paper as you burnish it down. Your finger should only require a swipe with a paper towel when you're done applying the glue to clean up--

Once the fins are dry (overnight), cut the excess paper back to within about 1/4 inch of the edges of the fin, then using a SHARP hobby knife shave the paper off the tip, root, and trailing edges of the fin down to the balsa... put a sheet of 220 grit sandpaper down on the work table, and holding the fin upright with it's tip, root, or trailing edge against the sandpaper, tilt the fin to a SLIGHT angle, and gently draw the fin towards you across the sandpaper a time or two, flip, and repeat-- this will remove any stray "paper hairs" that the hobby knife may have missed and leave you with perfectly dressed and finished paper edges, ready for the fins to be glued onto the rocket.

I posted pics of the process over in my Dr. Zooch Vanguard Eagle beta build thread... https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=13600

Works like a champ! Fins are VERY VERY strong and ready for primer/paint, and it's permanent and cheap and easy to do... and having the paper continuous over the leading edge means no fraying/lifting label edges in a year or two... and no doping the edges with CA trying to keep everything locked down...

Later! OL JR

I remember reading your thread awhile JR. In fact I want to say that you have some of the best finishing techniques and writing skills around! You should create a "How To" website on different phases of rocketry construction and finishing. I'm sure it would help a lot of people and get them more involved in the hobby.

I just wanted to try something different that's all. I'm always looking for new techniques to experiment with. I agree white glue would work just as well as wood glue, but correct me if I am wrong isn't there more water in white than there is in wood? I could be wrong like I said.

Peace

I can tell you from experience, you will get a very lumpy end product.
It's a thick cob-webbing spray that dries to a ruff orange peel texture.
With thin smooth paper, it show through.
If you used card stock, you'd get a smoother finish.
It's design is for repairing interior padded panels and padded vynal roofs on vehicles.

Woody's Workshop said:

I can tell you from experience, you will get a very lumpy end product.
It's a thick cob-webbing spray that dries to a ruff orange peel texture.
With thin smooth paper, it show through.
If you used card stock, you'd get a smoother finish.
It's design is for repairing interior padded panels and padded vynal roofs on vehicles.

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Card stock might prove to be a better choice than paper. How is the hold as far after several launches does it want to peel back?

RocketManDan said:

I remember reading your thread awhile JR. In fact I want to say that you have some of the best finishing techniques and writing skills around! You should create a "How To" website on different phases of rocketry construction and finishing. I'm sure it would help a lot of people and get them more involved in the hobby.

I just wanted to try something different that's all. I'm always looking for new techniques to experiment with. I agree white glue would work just as well as wood glue, but correct me if I am wrong isn't there more water in white than there is in wood? I could be wrong like I said.

Peace

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I haven't got viscosity test results to prove it, but I think they're similar consistency... and probably close enough in water content not to matter... from what I understand, the white glue is just actually better at bonding paper to wood than yellow glue, and from experience I can tell you that you get a lot less 'funky glue boogers' on your fingers from white glue than yellow glue... (higher solids/resin content in the yellow glue?? I dunno).

Thanks for the compliments. I don't have a webpage and know just enough about computers to be dangerous, so that's why I just focus on putting whatever contributions I can here in build threads and advice and experience to questions asked by others... I enjoy writing and wish I could get paid to do it... LOL

Later! OL JR

JR you make me want to build rockets. Now if you can just give me 6 more hours each day I will. Maybe I can go without sleep. Been way too busy. Hopefully after the first of the year I'll dig into a few new kits..we'll see?

RocketManDan said:

JR you make me want to build rockets. Now if you can just give me 6 more hours each day I will. Maybe I can go without sleep. Been way too busy. Hopefully after the first of the year I'll dig into a few new kits..we'll see?

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Yeah, I hear ya... same here...

Now on vacation I'm even barely squeaking by on TRF, YORF, and RP...

Later! OL JR

Wow, reviewed the original post. Weight only increased from 0.20 grams bare balsa to 0.25 grams papered and ready to paint? I'd take that 25% any day over FNF'ing. In fact I am curious how much weight even the most conservative FNF'ing adds.

THANX!:grin:

RocketManDan said:

I know there is a lot of different ways of doing this. I for one use wood glue and spread it very thin and apply the paper skins in that fashion working quickly. I know others have used the self adhesive label paper.

Has anyone tried using the 3M Spray adhesive I believe it's #77. I figure after it dries trim the edges and clean them up by sanding and apply a bead of thin CA to secure the edges. It would probably be less chance of the balsa warping because of lack of water in the adhesive, just not sure about the strength of the bond?

I'm just looking for a cleaner and quicker way of doing this procedure.

Click to expand...

that's how I always do it ,, toss down some newspaper for overspray. .
I do several whole balsa sheets at a time .
spray the paper, spray the balsa and squeegee it together.

when I need paper'd fins or parts I use a template or a fin from a kit and trace onto my paper'd stock.

I have plenty ready to cut and use when I need it and continue building.
no waiting for glue to dry or mess to make.. all my rockets are built from my paper'd stockpile.
the scraps come in handy as well