How to make homemade igniters.

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Well, it is not the first time the ATF has been wrong!:wink::D

They are in the business of making rules and enforcing rules, they don't particularly care if the rules are right or wrong. That makes it even more important for us to be careful and stay clean.
 
As solder doesn't stick to the wire I can't solder the NiChrome but that doesn't seem to matter..

Using correct methods helps,,, "Ruby red flux" allows soldering to NiChrome. Just saying.:wink:

That being said,, I have found it easier to use a wire wrapping tool.

Tom
 
Black Powder / Gunpowder are basically the same. 2 variations in the chemical mixture are, Potassium Nitrate, charcoal/carbon and sulfur. The 2nd variation is without the sulfur.

Do you mean smokeless gunpowder? If so, it is NOTHING like black powder. You can pour out a 1 lb. can of it and light it, and you'll get a long smooth controlled burn. anywhere from 10 seconds to ??? The graphite coating and size of the grains controls the bure rate over a pretty wide range. But you better not do that with blackpowder cause it will go poof in less than a second. Funny thing though is if you put them both under pressure (like in a gun) the BP will burn at about the same speed but the smokeless will speed up A LOT!

What about the game of ping pong? Did you know that the balls were made out of "GUNPOWDER" :y:----what a dangerous sport! Actuall it is not gunpowder because they do not have the graphite in them to slow down the burn rate. The balls are made from nitrocellulose, the same thing that gunpowder is made of.

But back to ignitors. I use this (kno3, Mg, and epoxy) and they work great. They are waterproof, last forever, burn for a long time of course depending on the size, and are hard/strong enough that you dont have to be so gentle with them. The mix is about as safe as you can get. I do not solder the wires, I just wrap and crimp. I have some going on 2 years old and they always work. It's funny to watch them when doing ground tests with the thrust pointed up. Sometimes when the motor lights, and burns out, the igniter is on the ground still burning. The kno3 has to be good stuff, I get mine from firefox, we have tried the bulk stuff that a friend uses to make sugar motors with, and the ignitors would not work.
 
I started making my own igniters simply because my club's equipment doesn't seem to provide enough current for Copperheads to be reliable. I use a recipe I found online. So far, I've had a near 100% success rate with my igniters. In fact, at the last club launch, the First Fire igniter that came with my I245 reload spit itself out of the motor without igniting it. I used one of mine, and it lit right up.

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But back to ignitors. I use this (kno3, Mg, and epoxy) and they work great. They are waterproof, last forever, burn for a long time of course depending on the size, and are hard/strong enough that you dont have to be so gentle with them. The mix is about as safe as you can get. I do not solder the wires, I just wrap and crimp. I have some going on 2 years old and they always work. It's funny to watch them when doing ground tests with the thrust pointed up. Sometimes when the motor lights, and burns out, the igniter is on the ground still burning. The kno3 has to be good stuff, I get mine from firefox, we have tried the bulk stuff that a friend uses to make sugar motors with, and the ignitors would not work.

This is what I use and it is an attached link: https://www.scribd.com/doc/20282932/Igniter-High-Temp-How-to-Make-It
 
Yes Chuck.

That is the same one I use too. Sometimes I'll add more epoxy to the mix to make it a little thinner, but it seems to work just as well. I also put a pinch of copper oxide in it for a black igniter and RIO for a red one. The copper ones have a nice blue flame----which dont do nuttin for the igniter , but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
 
For low power BP motors, essentially everything that Estes & Quest currently make, all you need is nichrome and a few simple tools.

I get about a 95% success rate for my home-wound igniters.

You need a 12v launch system, and I wouldn't use them in a cluster.

I wrote up a "project" for MAKE on igniter winding:

https://makeprojects.com/Project/Model-Rocket-Igniters/386/1
 
Chuck, I just noticed that you are from Georgia like me. I guess you go to Orangeburge though since your on the east side of the state.

Have you had trouble with the quality of the kno3 affecting the igniter mix?
 
Chuck, I just noticed that you are from Georgia like me. I guess you go to Orangeburge though since your on the east side of the state.

Have you had trouble with the quality of the kno3 affecting the igniter mix?

I live in Savannah, been using the same basic formula you have years.

Literally thousands of igniters later....

Since a year ago been using this:

https://www.americanpyrosupply.com/PYROTECHNIC_OXIDIZERS-POTASSIUM_NITRATE_-325_MESH.html

Anti-cake is only way to go. I still warm it up to drive off the terrible humidity we have and screen right before use.

I find moisture content affects the finished product terribly! Results in a slower burn, 2-4 seconds rather than the desirable 1-1.5 [for me anyway]

Also have used the prilled stuff, fertilizer grade. [looks like sand]
After several 15 second bursts in a coffee grinder. Talc powder consistency,[14.00 walmart] then the now standard drying. Just a flat Tupperware container with 1/2in. of material in bottom, set on top of lampshade, gentle heat dries material in 15-20 minutes.

PS folks never use a grinder for anything else! Just the dedicated oxidizer. Buy another one for other materials or risk going Boom!

This has worked equally as well as the anti-cake expensive stuff. I tested over a dozen & could not tell any difference. BUT it will cake up during storage and needs to be screened and dried every time.

So for me processing, moisture content, and particle size are determining factors for success.

100_8084.jpg
 
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I live in Savannah, been using the same basic formula you have years.

Literally thousands of igniters later....

Since a year ago been using this:

https://www.americanpyrosupply.com/PYROTECHNIC_OXIDIZERS-POTASSIUM_NITRATE_-325_MESH.html

Anti-cake is only way to go. I still warm it up to drive off the terrible humidity we have and screen right before use.

I find moisture content affects the finished product terribly! Results in a slower burn, 2-4 seconds rather than the desirable 1-1.5 [for me anyway]

Also have used the prilled stuff, fertilizer grade. [looks like sand]
After several 15 second bursts in a coffee grinder. Talc powder consistency,[14.00 walmart] then the now standard drying. Just a flat Tupperware container with 1/2in. of material in bottom, set on top of lampshade, gentle heat dries material in 15-20 minutes.

PS folks never use a grinder for anything else! Just the dedicated oxidizer. Buy another one for other materials or risk going Boom!

This has worked equally as well as the anti-cake expensive stuff. I tested over a dozen & could not tell any difference. BUT it will cake up during storage and needs to be screened and dried every time.

So for me processing, moisture content, and particle size are determining factors for success.

if you put all that TLC in your igniters i would love to see how you handle motor making!
 
Also have used the prilled stuff, fertilizer grade. [looks like sand]. After several 15 second bursts in a coffee grinder.

PS folks never use a grinder for anything else! Just the dedicated oxidizer. Buy another one for other materials or risk going Boom!

Hmm it goes boom.

Two tips:

1. Use a separate grinder per chemical type.

2. Never use them for coffee again. Special twang you will not enjoy.
 
Folks,,, please keep in mind,,,,,, coffee grinders are for coffee. Brushes are not sealed, there have been folks hurt, stories of which have been posted here. Ball mills are the safe way of doing this,,,, we don't need the bad publicity. The odds of something bad happening may be slim,,,,, but is it worth it?

Tom
 
Jim, As much as I want to use a coffee grinder again to get that fine dust like powder so easily. It aint never gonna happen no way no how! Maybe in 10-20 years when I cant remember why my hands look like they do now! People please DO NOT USE A COFFEE GRINDER FOR ANYTHING except grinding coffee.

Oxidiser + plastic (most all grinders are made of plastic) = POOF!
 
Jim, As much as I want to use a coffee grinder again to get that fine dust like powder so easily. It aint never gonna happen no way no how! Maybe in 10-20 years when I cant remember why my hands look like they do now! People please DO NOT USE A COFFEE GRINDER FOR ANYTHING except grinding coffee.

Oxidiser + plastic (most all grinders are made of plastic) = POOF!

Glad you piped in Don,,, Your accident is the most recent that pops to mind,, How are you doing?

Tom
 
Doing really good. February will be 2 years so all the healing is long been finished. I have a little bit of webing "duck feet" at the bottoms of my left hand fingers. and a couple of the fingers wont get completely straight. The right hand has a couple of pieces of skin graft that refuse to turn the same color as my palm. I guess it thinks it's still a leg. From 6 feet away it's hard to tell that I had the grafts done to my forearms. I've had friends that I haven't seen since I got burned tell me that they thought that I was burned really bad! They understand when I drop my pants and show them the long purple marks all over my left leg where they got the skin from. You get funny looks from people when you do that in the bank to show the teller.
 
Doing really good. February will be 2 years so all the healing is long been finished. I have a little bit of webing "duck feet" at the bottoms of my left hand fingers. and a couple of the fingers wont get completely straight. The right hand has a couple of pieces of skin graft that refuse to turn the same color as my palm. I guess it thinks it's still a leg. From 6 feet away it's hard to tell that I had the grafts done to my forearms. I've had friends that I haven't seen since I got burned tell me that they thought that I was burned really bad! They understand when I drop my pants and show them the long purple marks all over my left leg where they got the skin from. You get funny looks from people when you do that in the bank to show the teller.

Don, When I heard about your accident,, I was scared s__tless,, I exchanged some emails with your son,, who said the accident was not just a "fluke" (I was ready to give up on EX if it had no explainable reason to light off) I am glad you are doing as well as can be expected considering what happened,, it horrifies me when I read about folks using a coffee grinders for chemicals,, I didn't want to toss your name out there, but i am glad you helped steer folks away from this practice.
CHEERS!!!!
Tom
 
There was a kid who though it a good idea to grind old estes motors with a coffee grinder. Not good.

He wasn't hurt but it scared me and the mrs. when we found out what he was doing next door.

Andrew
 
There was a kid who though it a good idea to grind old estes motors with a coffee grinder. Not good.

He wasn't hurt but it scared me and the mrs. when we found out what he was doing next door.


I've watched various programs on discovery and whatever about people that make fireworks. It seems that the key is how much material you have on hand at one time. Cut a couple of Estes motors open, smash the contents into a pile on the floor and throw a match on it. It might look dramatic but it probably isn't dangerous to anything but the floor it is burning on. But if he was accumulating several pounds of the stuff, he could get into serious conflagration.
 
Most guns today don't use black powder, rather a smokeless powder.
Some old flint locks use it but, even those use a black powder substitute of some form these days.


JD


Black Powder / Gunpowder are basically the same. 2 variations in the chemical mixture are, Potassium Nitrate, charcoal/carbon and sulfur. The 2nd variation is without the sulfur.

Estes C Class rocket engines are made with Potassium Nitrate, Charcoal, Sulfur & Dextrin (the binder)

Estes igniter pyrogen is made with Potassium Nitrate, Carbon, Corn Starch & Hide Glue. The reference for the igniter info can be found here
https://www.drra.nl/documenten/estes/MSDS-Estes Igniter.pdf

Both are of a black powder/gunpowder nature.

Now granted, not all pyrogens are created the same but Estes industries does use black powder/gunpowder. My recipe is a bit complicated as I melt ping pong balls in acetone for a polymer. Pyrodex gunpowder and aluminum powder are incorporated until I have the consistency of Elmer's glue. This particular recipe is designed for high power motors but could be used in smaller motors. Class Dismissed.
 
I've watched various programs on discovery and whatever about people that make fireworks. It seems that the key is how much material you have on hand at one time. Cut a couple of Estes motors open, smash the contents into a pile on the floor and throw a match on it. It might look dramatic but it probably isn't dangerous to anything but the floor it is burning on. But if he was accumulating several pounds of the stuff, he could get into serious conflagration.

Well the trick there is to have it burn on the floor, not in the coffee grinder that your holding stedy with your left hand and pressing the button with your right. And I might have had a 1/4 of a cup of material. Not really all that much. But enough to put me in the hospital for 11 days @ $189,000.00!
 
grinding 200 mesh AP. I didn't know that a little Al had gotten buy the shaft seal and was inside the grinder floating around the armature/sparking brushes. And yes I know you should use seperate grinders. But I had blown it out with compressed air and washed out the cup with alcohol. It didn't help that the Al that I had ground was some lumpy 6 micron stuff. NO it did not explode (most people ask that) it just went poof. You wouldnt have been able to hear it from 20' away.
 
Most guns today don't use black powder, rather a smokeless powder.
Some old flint locks use it but, even those use a black powder substitute of some form these days.


JD

I like to use real Black powder in my .50 hawken cap lock. It's possible to over charge with pyrodex and get into trouble but it's almost impossible to do with real black powder.

And I have loaded my Ruger .45 long colt with BP to make it look more cowboyish (is that a word?).
 
I use real BP in my TC Renegade - 50 CAL Flintlock. Haven't shot it in a while though. It is less common as fewer stores are willing to store it with the added expense (need a storage magazine). A few near me still carry it though.
 
I've watched various programs on discovery and whatever about people that make fireworks. It seems that the key is how much material you have on hand at one time. Cut a couple of Estes motors open, smash the contents into a pile on the floor and throw a match on it. It might look dramatic but it probably isn't dangerous to anything but the floor it is burning on. But if he was accumulating several pounds of the stuff, he could get into serious conflagration.

No, the reason for limiting the amount present is to minimize the damage, should something go wrong.

The key is to use proper techniques and tools. Don, unfortunately, has first-hand experience with what happens when you don't use the right tools. Fortunately, he's able to pass that hard-learned experience on to others.

As for your notion of throwing a match on crushed up BP motors, it most certainly is dangerous to more than the floor -- anything combustible nearby, or a person who happens to be too close.

-Kevin
 
Also have used the prilled stuff, fertilizer grade. [looks like sand]
After several 15 second bursts in a coffee grinder. Talc powder consistency,.

just gonna say...you put saltpeter in your coffee grinder before or after your morning coffee?:eyepop:
 
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