Raven Power Perch
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dixontj93060
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I'll take two. Sending PM.
Pantherjon
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Without the magnetic switch and battery, then all that's left would be a connector that would hook up to the Raven's existing connector, and it would still cost around $20. Several people have asked for this, and I'm afraid I still don't understand the motivation. Can you guys help me understand what would be valuable to you, so I can look into designing a product for it, because it wouldn't be the Power Perch any more.
The Power Perch is made to provide an integrated electronics solution so you don't need to figure out how to wire up external access to your switches or worry how to safely strap down a 9V brick next to your expensive electronics. I think I'm hearing that you do want to do that part of the av-bay work but you don't want to figure out which wires to stick into the Raven's existing terminals? Am I missing something? I want to understand where you guys are coming from.
nh4clo4
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+1.
blackjack2564
Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Yuupp. Here are some of the issues being discussed at launches around the eastern seabord about the Raven:
As I was telling you from the beginning when we first met. Many of us "old" guys [along with the young whipper snappers lol] don't care that much about teeny tiny. Just want to use a screwdriver larger than one needed for eyeglasses.
Simple large terminal blocks that allow a new 9v battery every flight.
Hooking up the charge wires to their own respective terminal. Not twisting all the commons in one hole or figuring out what goes where.
A set of terminals for a switch, what ever that may be.
Not be forced to design/re-design av-bays so I can get a magnetic switch close enough to the airframe wall to work.
Being able to hook up 9v[which everyone has a box full of] instead of a battery type unfamiliar & buying a charger for it.
I personally solved the dilemma with terminal blocks and a soldering iron.
When prepping I want all things the same on all rockets .
Don't want to screw up because this unit wires different from that. Don't want to think about, I like "muscle memory", derived from repetition.
As I have traveled all over the place many fliers have expressed the same train of thought. I have done 5 sleds with terminal blocks added to simplify hooking up charges for others & am currently doing another.
My friend bought a Raven last spring, was totally overwhelmed by it, [His only other exposure to altimeters is several Missleworks] and it's been sitting in his tool box for lack of understanding how to wire it on a sled. So I offered to fix it for him with terminal blocks for all the wires needed.
I am astounded by so many that don't realize yours is a + common, even though it's plain as day in your manual, it just doesn't sink in. They are so used to - commons I guess.
Every other one I have done, was met with sheer delight. "Thanks Jim, now I can use it without figuring out what goes where"
Most folks doing everyday flying are just intimidated by what they see as complex & you see as simplified.
You have a wonder piece of engineering that does so much it's beyond the scope of what everyday flying requires. If you were to survey those that own your unit,I'm willing to bet there are very few have a total understanding of all the features, how to use them,set all the values & even fewer that could explain them to others. Especially the graphs & down loadable data.
It's a " I hope I did it right" fear that prevents most from delving into all the possibilities available to them. "I just hope everything deploys, I was fooling with the settings."
The everyday flier wants plug and play, plus the ability to download nice data.
The bulk of fliers have a hard enough time just figuring out how to correctly design and build a sled.
We all look at problems from our personal point of view, it's human nature.
We all can tell when a carpenter builds an av-bay, or an electrician, or a mechanic. We can really tell when an engineer does one! They all do it based on personal experience and training.
There is no right or wrong way. They all work, but boy what a difference. Anyone reading this know exactly what I mean!
You are selling a Ferrari among Chevy's make no bones about that.
But owning & driving a Ferrari requires much more skill & knowledge to take advantage of all that it offers, compared to the Chevy's the masses are used to, & anyone can drive and modify.
The Raven is a fantastic product that "does it all". I was really hoping that someday a "Chevy" would show up in your line up. Simpler, cheaper, doesn't have to have "all" the bells and whistles, but certainly nice down loadable, pertinent data.
And simply screw it to a sled and hook up the wires.
Please don't feel a need to defend yourself on any of these points I'm making.
I have no problem with using my Raven. I just thought since you asked I would convey the many concerns I hear from fliers about the Raven, and by the way, the majority of these don't even know Forums like this exist.
No one product can serve the needs of all. Even though you do come pretty close. LOL
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Hi,
Jim explained the points in quite detail. My summary: Buy one Raven and a Perch for each rocket sled. Then you can wire them up once, and just switch the altimeter from rocket to rocket, without having to worry about the wirings going wrong.
This is added value even for those of us who are queasy about using magnetic switches and small lipos in large rockets. Adding a Raven per rocket is often out of the question, adding $20-30 per rocket sled is not so bad.
The ideal "perch" for this purpose would also have a separate terminal for the power input and possibly even one for the switch (may clean up connections, even though the switch can of course be put directly between the battery and perch). Having the power perch and this "dummy" perch would have me seriously considering the dummy, even for the same price.
Just my 2c ...
Sampo N.
Jim explained the points in quite detail. My summary: Buy one Raven and a Perch for each rocket sled. Then you can wire them up once, and just switch the altimeter from rocket to rocket, without having to worry about the wirings going wrong.
This is added value even for those of us who are queasy about using magnetic switches and small lipos in large rockets. Adding a Raven per rocket is often out of the question, adding $20-30 per rocket sled is not so bad.
The ideal "perch" for this purpose would also have a separate terminal for the power input and possibly even one for the switch (may clean up connections, even though the switch can of course be put directly between the battery and perch). Having the power perch and this "dummy" perch would have me seriously considering the dummy, even for the same price.
Just my 2c ...
Sampo N.
Thanks Jim and Sampo. That's just the kind of feedback I was looking for. I already knew about people who want plug-and-play, and other people who want to keep wiring up 9V batteries and switches they're used to, but I'm learning that there's a lot of overlap between those two groups.
Adrian
If you get stuck with those "backwards" boards I would be interested in buying a few, I am pretty handy with electronics, my degree is in electronics engineering.
I plan on buying a few anyway, but I am weird and actually like "messing" with this stuff. I have been wanting to build my own altimeter but never seem to have the time, and with all the great products out there I have trouble justifying spending the time and money.
I cannot believe they would not fix an obvious mistake on there behalf.
Yes, they're fixing them. There was a + sign on the silkscreen for the battery connector, next to the - end of the capacitor, that was the source of the confusion. I kept a number of the boards to flip the capacitor myself, and these are done and retested. Now I'm just waiting for the hardware and battery restraint pieces.
When you get the hardware,,, I am probably going to order along with a new Raven,,, Setup a package deal that we can't refuse!!!!!
Oh I got the package you sent,, THANKS!!!!!
Tom
dixontj93060
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Hmm. Be sure to keep the Power Perch's mounting screws terminals isolated from your sled. Otherwise when you turn it on, that CF is going to get pretty warm. I recommend using nylon screws.
patelldp
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I do have to ask why you use CF on all of your boards. I know it looks cool, but being conductive really isn't a desirable characteristic in an e-bay.
dixontj93060
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At the risk of hijacking Adrian's thread, I'll quickly answer... First, I don't use CF on all my av-sleds. Alternate examples here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and...
Saying that, I have quite a bit of 1/16" ply left over from a buy done on my my L3 build. It is nice stuff and thin so it takes up minimal room. The only problem is that it tends to warp a bit. A single layer of FG doesn't straighten it, but it turns out straight as an arrow with a single layer of (the stiffer) CF. I just use swatches of extra CF I have in a bag from other cuts and make up a panel every 6 months or so and do cuts from it when I want until its gone; then will do another layup as I'm doing something else. So the answer, mostly because of space advantages and convenience.
Regarding the conductivity, sure, no big deal. My undergraduate degree is in Electrical Engineering and many moons ago I did tons of board and chip design (in fact, have a number of patents from that time in life) so I know both the pluses and minuses of using CF and, with respect to the minuses, do the spacing and/or insulating as needed.
dixontj93060
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Umm, Adrian, why would you make the mounting screws hot? Very (VERY) BAD design practice!!! If not floating, mounting screws should ALWAYS be ground!!!!
One is ground and the other is a free switched power output for connecting a low-powered transmitter like a big red bee transmitter or a Telemini.
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dixontj93060 said:
Except that he has already said its done to provide for switched power to another device. The existing magnetic switch is the same way, I do believe.
It's a valid point that people may not be expecting this feature, so I'll be sure to point out the implications in the user manual.
dixontj93060
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Always reasons, sure... But bad design practice none the less. I would have skewered any of the 170 engineers that used to work for me if the did such.
dixontj93060
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Adrian, yes please point out the hot and grounded mounting locations specifically.
It's also silkscreened on the board with a '+' and a '-'.
Threemorewishes
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According to this logic I'm the guy who follows the circus animals with a shovel and a pail.
Seems a bit harsh.
dixontj93060
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Well, maybe... But we designed large, high speed switching equipment that had six-nines uptime expectations. At one time 85% of all US data/voice traffic traveled across our switches. With that application and set of critical requirements you cannot afford to compromise or randomly change convention/design practice.
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I WANT!! Gonna have enough for all of us???
For high speed data network equipment, (and spacecraft electronics), you can count on conductive chassis, and cards are often grounded to them for increased noise immunity. Whether the chassis mounting is isolated or grounded is specified with requirements on the card design. In contrast, in rocketry, probably 70% of the sleds people will use for this are plywood, and almost all the rest are G10. With that in mind, Raven is designed to work fine on its own without any chassis shielding, even if it's next to a transmitter. Rocketry design standards are different than in other applications.
Yep. There are 250 in this batch. I still need to make an instruction manual, and I just sent in updated designs for the wooden battery restraints. When they come in, I'll be ready to start shipping.
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