An open thread about Estes Screamers and the like...

[Marc_G]

I have a lot of things going on right now, so progress here has been kinda slow.

-Basement cleaning / reorganization: Little bit at a time!
-Lots of family stuff going on; work too!
-Learning to use water based acrylic paints and an airbrush (see thread)
-And these screamers.

I was going to use my airbrush and some Createx Auto-Air Sealer today, to seal my first upscaled Screamer (it's just BT-20).





But oops, in taking the above pictures I realized I forgot to put on the launch lug. DOH!

I spun the wheel about how to handle it:

-Continue painting project, deal with lug later
-Use CA and start painting in an hour or so
-Use 5 minute Gel epoxy and paint in a couple hours
-Use my ususal carpenters glue then TMTG and paint tomorrow.

Despite being impatient, I went with the slowest option. I'm just learning on using the acrylic paints and don't want to change other parts of my build process on these early attempts. Also, it will give me time to prep the nose cone (a balsa BNC-20G4 from SEMROC, just arrived yesterday). I'll CA it then paint on some thinned auto spot putty (like I did on the fins).

I'll probably also start the BT-50 upscale this weekend. Get this: in my recent SEMROC order, mostly nosecones, I FORGOT to include a BNC-50G4 cone. But I do have a plastic cone that's got about a 4:1 ratio Ogive, but its tip is a little blunter than the true AX style. It will HAVE to do!

[bradycros]

I FORGOT to include a BNC-50G4 cone. But I do have a plastic cone that's got about a 4:1 ratio Ogive, but its tip is a little blunter than the true AX style. It will HAVE to do!

Use some epoxy and filler to make the cone pointy.

[Marc_G]

Here's the first upscale, sporting my first attempt at waterbased acrylic painting using a new airbrush. For details, see the Techniques forum:



Gotta order me some decals!

Marc

[bradycros]

I FORGOT to include a BNC-50G4 cone. But I do have a plastic cone that's got about a 4:1 ratio Ogive, but its tip is a little blunter than the true AX style. It will HAVE to do!

Use some epoxy and filler to make the cone pointy.

Or don't use some epoxy and filler to make the cone pointy!

[BABAR]

Screamer was my first rocket too. I still think it was is one of the coolest looking basic 3FNC rockets out there.

[Marc_G]

Or don't use some epoxy and filler to make the cone pointy!

Oops. My pic is the BT-20 version. Still considering what to do for the BT-50 version where I forgot to get the pointy cone. The filler and epoxy idea is good but im probably too lazy to bother.

Fillets are on the BT-50 one now and I will seal the fins tonight. They are very light balsa. Will use thin CA followed by spot putty.

[bradycros]

Still considering what to do for the BT-50 version where I forgot to get the pointy cone. The filler and epoxy idea is good but im probably too lazy to bother.

Your a complicated kinda guy, eh.

You nit pick other parts of a build to death like surface preperation by making your own type of filler.

Now your want to learn how to get a great paint job on the smooth prepared surface with an air brush.

But, your not going to take the time to make the nose cone look right?

[Marc_G]

Your a complicated kinda guy, eh.

You nit pick other parts of a build to death like surface preperation by making your own type of filler.

Now your want to learn how to get a great paint job on the smooth prepared surface with an air brush.

But, your not going to take the time to make the nose cone look right?

Heh heh. There are complex heuristics involved!
- how much do I care about this detail?
- how hard is it likely to be?
- what are my chances of success versus making it worse?
- what will I learn and how useful will that be to me?
And other factors...

The airbrush stuff scores highly because it means I can paint through the winter

The nosecone thing scores lower because im no t good with fine artistic detail and it is likely I would botch the job. Im not highly experienced with epoxy and fillers. Don't have any microballoons or whatnot. If I were to do it I would probably drill the tip, insert toothpick, then build up with epoxy putty then hope to sand it properly to shape. Again, not so much aligned with my skill set vs tolerance of failure.

This one goes in the "live with it or order proper cone next time" category.

I've got lots of projects im champing at the bit to start and not willing to spend the time on this particular detail.

Ah the complexity of being me!

[bradycros]

Heh heh. There are complex heuristics involved!
- how much do I care about this detail?
- how hard is it likely to be?
- what are my chances of success versus making it worse?
- what will I learn and how useful will that be to me?
And other factors...

Ah the complexity of being me!

I'd be inclined to say your chances of success are zero as it seems your unwilling to try making that nose cone pointy.

You may have to call your upscale "Kind'a Screamed" instead of "Screamer".

[Marc_G]

I'd be inclined to say your chances of success are zero as it seems your unwilling to try making that nose cone pointy.

You may have to call your upscale "Kind'a Screamed" instead of "Screamer".

I'm calling it artistic liberty, just as with my two-stage, stretched BT-5 version (which does have a pointy cone).

Keep in mind, one less than optimal landing can turn a pointy cone into a blunt one... my cone is just "pre-blunted" courtesy of Estes!

[bradycros]

I'm calling it artistic liberty, just as with my two-stage, stretched BT-5 version (which does have a pointy cone).

Keep in mind, one less than optimal landing can turn a pointy cone into a blunt one... my cone is just "pre-blunted" courtesy of Estes!

You really are a complicated kinda guy, eh.

[Marc_G]

To cap off the pointy vs. blunt nose cone thing... Here's mu current family of Screamers with the BT-50 one being the unpainted one with the slightly blunt nose cone.





No, it's not quite perfect as it is a bit blunt, but it's still a 4-1 ogive, more or less, and the loss of something like 3 mm at the tip is something I can live with.

Now, if this were an episode of Star Trek (TOS), episode "The Changeling," I'm sure Nomad would come after me bleating "Error! Imperfect! Must Sterilize!"

But if it still bugs me a month from now I'll order a new cone from SEMROC and be done with it. In the meantime, I'm setting my usual OCD aside on this issue. Chances of me making an attractive pointy tip are small if I tried. Instead, I'll move on to the BT-60 upscale for which I DO have the right cone

[MarkII]

Your nose cone for the upscale looks fine. Paint it black and no one will be the wiser.

[dpower]

Hi folks,
...The Screamer was my first ever rocket, so it has imprinted itself onto my psyche. I've now built a pair of them: one mostly stock, one stretched with an extra stage.
...

The screamer was one of my earliest birds too; The cost of the mini-brutes & their engines worked for me back then!

[bradycros]

Your nose cone for the upscale looks fine. Paint it black and no one will be the wiser.

Everyone thats read this thread (886 people so far) will be the wiser!

[MarkII]

Everyone thats read this thread (886 people so far) will be the wiser!

I don't think that will be a problem.

[bradycros]

I don't think.

Good one!

[Micromeister]

To cap off the pointy vs. blunt nose cone thing... Here's mu current family of Screamers with the BT-50 one being the unpainted one with the slightly blunt nose cone.





No, it's not quite perfect as it is a bit blunt, but it's still a 4-1 ogive, more or less, and the loss of something like 3 mm at the tip is something I can live with.

Now, if this were an episode of Star Trek (TOS), episode "The Changeling," I'm sure Nomad would come after me bleating "Error! Imperfect! Must Sterilize!"

But if it still bugs me a month from now I'll order a new cone from SEMROC and be done with it. In the meantime, I'm setting my usual OCD aside on this issue. Chances of me making an attractive pointy tip are small if I tried. Instead, I'll move on to the BT-60 upscale for which I DO have the right cone

All three look just fine. Mark is right on. Paint it black...the man of a flying horse will never know the difference, nor will anyone on the field care.... Ignor veryslow he just likes to stir.

[bradycros]

I.D. TEN T

[Marc_G]

Thanks all for your kind comments!

I've sealed the fins on the BT-50 one, meanwhile. I soaked in some thin CA then while it was curing overcoated with thick CA. Let it cure a few hours then sanded down. Pretty smooth; won't need much spot putty to finish the job. The BT-20 one had significant shallow grain that would normally have been caught by the filler primer step I do when using lacquers, so I'm taking extra pains to get these fins smooth. These are 3/32cnd Balsa, by the way.

I'll probably cut fins for the BT-60 variant today. Haven't decided on the material yet. Maybe 1/8" Balsa (CA sealed and hardened), or maybe 3/32cnd Basswood.

Time will tell. Stay tuned.

Marc

[sandman]

Marc, decals are on the way!

[Marc_G]

Thanks Gordy! Can't wait to use them!

Folk, while Screamer decals are easy, over the last few days Gordy has worked hard on some custom decals for me for a Fliskits Corona. I just want to publicly thank him for his hard work, dedicated customer focus, and creativity!

Excelsior rocks!

[Marc_G]

Progress Continues.

First, here's a freshly painted (acrylic, wicked colors, custom-mixed orange) BT-50 Screamer upscale. I forgot to paint the NC black... will do that later, over the orange. The "orange" is more red than orange, actually, due to a slight error in mixing the yellow and red together. Net time I'll start with yellow and dribble in red until I get the desired shade; I did it in reverse this time and ran out of room in the small bottle before hitting the shade I wanted. No worries, it's still an attractice color!

As Gordy mentioned, Decals are on the way but I won't likely have time to use them until this coming weekend, due to a business trip.



Next, I got fins on the BT-60 upscale. The cone is a SEMROC BNC-60G4, and a nice hunk-o-balsa it is!

For the BT-60 version I stuck with 3/32" fins but went to basswood. I have since painted on some thinned spot putty, and for the NC, I sealed it with thin CA then filled it a bit with thick CA. Tomorrow I plan to sand that down a bit then fill with the thinned spot putty. I like this approach to the cone because it makes it a lot less likely that my sanding operation will damage the balsa cone by creating a flat spot. Also, I use 3M sanding sponges which conform to the shape of the cone pretty well.

Here's the BT-60 next to the original-scale model:



Quite a difference... it's hard to believe that BT60 is just a 3X scale BT-5.

[MarkII]

I like the way your Screamer looks in the Mercurochrome orange! It is perfect! Hey, look at me -- I painted the orange sections of my Super Flea and Javelin with Cherry Red, and I used Allis Chalmers Orange (aka Persian Orange) on my Aero-Hi and Rogue. Regular Pumpkin Orange is fine but it doesn't have as much moxie as these other colors.

[bradycros]

Here's the BT-60 next to the original-scale model:



Quite a difference... it's hard to believe that BT60 is just a 3X scale BT-5.

I like what I'm seeing. What is the purpose of the blue stripe on the 3X?

[Marc_G]

I like what I'm seeing. What is the purpose of the blue stripe on the 3X?

It's masking tape around the shoulder of the nose cone. The original fit was WAY too tight, so I sanded lightly to make a proper fit. Then I decided a tight fit would be good for the next step, where I would be puttying the fins and sealing the cone, so I did a wrap of tape to ensure the cone wouldn't fall off while manipulating the model during these operations.

Also, I usually do a wrap of masking tape there anyway, to make sure I don't seal the cardboard tube to the balsa cone shoulder during painting or Future application. Some of these paints/polishes etc. act like a great cardboard-to-wood glue! The slick tape prevents that from happening.

[bradycros]

It's masking tape around the shoulder of the nose cone. The original fit was WAY too tight, so I sanded lightly to make a proper fit. Then I decided a tight fit would be good for the next step, where I would be puttying the fins and sealing the cone, so I did a wrap of tape to ensure the cone wouldn't fall off while manipulating the model during these operations.

Also, I usually do a wrap of masking tape there anyway, to make sure I don't seal the cardboard tube to the balsa cone shoulder during painting or Future application. Some of these paints/polishes etc. act like a great cardboard-to-wood glue! The slick tape prevents that from happening.

Well, there ya go!

Slick tape? Kind'a like saying giant shrimp.

[Marc_G]

Slick tape? Kind'a like saying giant shrimp.

Actually this brings up a good point:

I've got two kinds of blue painter's tape. The regular stuff that has a relatively rough surface to it, and the special delicate surface tape, which has less aggressive adhesive, and a much smoother "slick" outer surface.

I use this slicker tape whenever I protect a nose cone shoulder during painting / future coating. The rougher stuff seems more porus and allows liquids to wick in and possibly cause a glue-like jam when dry. The slick stuff tends to repel the liquids and isn't as prone to being jammed up.

It's amazing how these little differences in products make a significant difference in applications like ours!

Marc

[bradycros]

Actually this brings up a good point:

I've got two kinds of blue painter's tape. The regular stuff that has a relatively rough surface to it, and the special delicate surface tape, which has less aggressive adhesive, and a much smoother "slick" outer surface.

I use this slicker tape whenever I protect a nose cone shoulder during painting / future coating. The rougher stuff seems more porus and allows liquids to wick in and possibly cause a glue-like jam when dry. The slick stuff tends to repel the liquids and isn't as prone to being jammed up.

It's amazing how these little differences in products make a significant difference in applications like ours!

Marc

Whew... Dodged the bullet on that one. I thought you would bring up teflon tape for sure.

[Socknic]

I've been thinking of building a Screamer since I have all the parts. "the like?"