WANNA FLY CTI in your 75mm snap/ring cases??? Get a HUB CAP! How To info.

Time do dust off all your AMW hardware that's been laying around idle. THIS WILL BE A BLACK SATURDAY ITEM. PRICE LATER.

Now you can fly STANDARD CTI 75mm re-loads in all Animal compatible hardware. Yes it has been certified by CAR, so it's accepted by Tripoli.

See here middle of article: https://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3318/95/

I will show you how all this works and what size cases & loads can be interchanged in this thread.

So.... Fly CTI right out of the box with just this HubCap adapter in AMW, Gorilla & Kosdon hardware.

Bear with me till the end, I will probably answer most questions during the reveal.

FIRST: when I refer to Animal compatible I mean: AMW-Gorilla- Kosdon 75mm hardware. If used in Loki you must fly on research days as the Loki cases were not in the cert process. [I don't know why, their choice maybe?]

All those high power rockets you have, can now take advantage of CTI loads in snap ring hardware you already posses. No need to buy more.
Spacers work with this also.

Fly a CTI 3 or 4 grain in a 5 grain AMW compatible case with a spacer and the HUBCAP. Just like a CTI case with spacers.

Yes you use the same exact spacer for all cases. No need to buy different ones.

Here's what you get.

How it will come stacked.

Spread out: Nozzle carrier
Standard CTI forward closure.
Steel washer to protect the top of closure from hubcap bolts
The Hubcap itself. adjusts to snug the closure against the snap rings.

More on all this as I show how it works. I'll actually load up a case.

It's a pretty slick setup, I used it for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I put a L995 into a Gorilla case, now I need to pick up a 6000 case and a spacer. Oh the possibilities!!

I have to reply here. I have one of these units, and have not flown it yet. Can't wait to do so!
But, if I'm reading the announcement from CTI correctly, this is certified for the AMW cases only. There is no mention of Gorilla or Kosdon here. You might want to be careful at a launch about this, you might be flying an "EX" motor and not realize it....

This WILL BE FEATURED [CTI HUBCAP] IN THE BLACK SATURDAY SALE.

FIRST TEASER/ITEM LISTED ! SO IF YOU GOT SNAP RING HARDWARE... You got no excuse for not stocking up on____ during BSS [blk sat sale]

Tim's off to see the Davey Jones Concert [of the Monkey's] so I won't get busted for a day or two. Lol:rant::rant: for spilling the beans.

Maxitout said:

for the AMW cases only. There is no mention of Gorilla or Kosdon here. You might want to be careful at a launch about this, you might be flying an "EX" motor and not realize it....

Click to expand...

I am stating data as I was told. If I am incorrect...Please Dr.J step in here and set it right. That release also states you still need a nozzle carrier . The units here [Wildmans] has them included.

Now on with the show: These are both 6000cases [AMW & GORILLA] We already know the re-load will fit CTI hardware.

Normally you would fly with the parts on the left pic.
................Case-nozzle-nozzle washer -front closure - snap rings.

Parts is the middle replace the nozzle & forward closure. They are:
................ CTI- nozzle carrier- forward closure[which is same as comes with CTI hardware] HUBCAP- hubcap steel washer.

So this is what we will be using on the right.[CTI hubcap assembly]

You still need the snap rings & nozzle washer from your harware.

HOW DOES IT WORK:

First you see the standard forward closure. With the HubCap washer being put into position. This is to keep the bolt from damaging the closure when tightened down.[more on this later.]

2nd you see the Hubcap inverted so the bolts are clearly visible on the inside.

3rd here's the washer covering bolts to protect the forward closure.

4th/last is the assembly ready for O-ring and installation in the case.

LETS BEGIN:

1st what we will be using.
..............O-ring bag from re-load. nozzle carrier- snap rings-nozzle washer- HubCap & the CTI nozzle

2nd. Get nozzle carrier and bag of O-rings supplied with CTI re-load.

3rd place red O-ring into groove on the INSIDE of nozzle carrier.

4th place 1 of the black O-rings on outside of nozzle carrier.

5th. slide nozzle into the carrier. It will have to be inserted with some force
to make it fit flush with carrier, due to the resistance of the O-ring . About the same as when inserting the closure into the case.

NOZZLE & CARRIER READY TO INSTALL:

Looks strangely familiar to the AMW nozzle when assembled, doesn't it?

Grease the first 2 inches of the case, then install the carrier assembly the same way you would a graphite nozzle. Push and twist till you are clear of the inside groove.

Slide the nozzle washer over nozzle into position.

Install the snap ring.

Rear assembly done. Onto the forward end.:grin:

blackjack2564 said:

Tim's off to see the Davey Jones Concert [of the Monkey's] so I won't get busted for a day or two. Lol:rant::rant: for spilling the beans.

Click to expand...

Never mind spilling the beans on the BSS I think Tim's gonna be more pist! you just told everybody he's at a Davey Jones! Concert LOLOLOLOL:rofl:

[YOUTUBE]h94RW9Aze5s[/YOUTUBE]


Here it is in use!




Braden

Jim,

AMW never came out with a 4 grain 75mm motor line. Kosdon East had the 75mm x 4700 that I think you are referring to.....


JD

blackjack2564 said:

Time do dust off all your AMW hardware that's been laying around idle. THIS WILL BE A BLACK SATURDAY ITEM. PRICE LATER.

Now you can fly STANDARD CTI 75mm re-loads in all Animal compatible hardware. Yes it has been certified by CAR, so it's accepted by Tripoli.

See here middle of article: https://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3318/95/

I will show you how all this works and what size cases & loads can be interchanged in this thread.

So.... Fly CTI right out of the box with just this HubCap adapter in AMW, Gorilla & Kosdon hardware.

Bear with me till the end, I will probably answer most questions during the reveal.

FIRST: when I refer to Animal compatible I mean: AMW-Gorilla- Kosdon 75mm hardware. If used in Loki you must fly on research days as the Loki cases were not in the cert process. [I don't know why, their choice maybe?]

All those high power rockets you have, can now take advantage of CTI loads in snap ring hardware you already posses. No need to buy more.
Spacers work with this also.

Fly a CTI 3 grain in a 4 grain AMW compatible case with a spacer and the HUBCAP. Just like a CTI case with spacers.

Yes you use the same exact spacer for all cases. No need to buy different ones.

Here's what you get.

How it will come stacked.

Spread out: Nozzle carrier
Standard CTI forward closure.
Steel washer to protect the top of closure from hubcap bolts
The Hubcap itself. adjusts to snug the closure against the snap rings.

More on all this as I show how it works. I'll actually load up a case.

Click to expand...

UPscaler said:

[YOUTUBE]h94RW9Aze5s[/YOUTUBE]


Here it is in use!




Braden

Click to expand...

Thanks Braden. It was a K1085 loaded in a 2 grain AMW case. It went together really easily. I bought the hubcap as soon as Ken had it in stock several months ago. And seeing as I have ALL the 3" snapring hardware, I am set!!

Here are the instructions from AMW/Pro-X:
https://www.pro38.com/pdfs/AMWPro75_Adapter_Instructions.pdf
AMW hardware only.

The CAR testing report says it was testing in AMW hardware only.

The NAR S&T cross-compatible list only shows CTI reloads allowed in AT or AMW cases in 75mm.
https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/CasingCrossCert.pdf

Here are the sizes and spacer requirements.

Ok lets say you have a load or 2 already made for research. You show up at the launch & want to let a buddy fly one, he doesn't have the right case, but you have a HUBCAP.

Now you are both happy campers. You can use it for research on any case you want if it fits. Nothing states it cannot be used for research motors to fit different size loads in various cases.

This thing will let you fly CTI reloads also in your case arsenal on research day, if you desire. Just more options available with it.

Let's face it here, there are many clubs now flying indy stlye, fly what you want when you want.
This will just enable you to do more things with the hardware you already have.

I believe AMW compatible still means AMW-Kosdon-Gorilla, till I'm shown otherwise. Cases, you still have to use the correct nozzle & closure from manufacturer A in case B. If flying AMW case, the nozzle & closure from Gorilla must be used with a Gorilla re-load.

Same as if flying a CTI load in what ever case, the CTI closure & nozzle must be used.

Dr J....which cases can be flown under warranty coverage with the commercial CTI loads?

I have updated info as you can see in the graph, also the nozzle carrier comes with the unit [updated] Dr J will be reading this soon I'm sure and will correct any errors I may have stated/clarify things.

I'm just trying to show folks how this works and make more fliers aware of this option for snap ring cases. It hasn't been publicized enough. There are a ton of AMW hardware out there looking for re-load options to fly. This gives new life to them.

One of the reason's for it being in the BLK S sale for ...xxx dollars under retail. A steal at this price! To be revealed in a day or 2.

JDcluster said:

Jim,

AMW never came out with a 4 grain 75mm motor line. Kosdon East had the 75mm x 4700 that I think you are referring to.....


JD

Click to expand...

Thanx JD I went back & corrected my statement.

I have a 4 grain case, just did not realize it was so rare. To me Kosdon East was Animal, yes this stuff can be confusing. By the time this thread is over hopefully all this will be straightened out.

blackjack2564 said:

I believe AMW compatible still means AMW-Kosdon-Gorilla, till I'm shown otherwise.
[...]
Dr J....which cases can be flown under warranty coverage with the commercial CTI loads?

Click to expand...

Read the links I sent above. Adapter is for AMW only.

NAR S&T shows CTI reload cross-compatibility is AMW only (AT 75/98 case also, but without adapter). TRA TMT might decide to declare any AMW-compatible casing is allowed. But, it won't be covered by CTI warranty.

jsdemar said:

Read the links I sent above. Adapter is for AMW only.

NAR S&T shows CTI reload cross-compatibility is AMW only (AT 75/98 case also, but without adapter). TRA TMT might decide to declare any AMW-compatible casing is allowed. But, it won't be covered by CTI warranty.

Click to expand...

Paul Holmes from Tripoli sent an email out stating that all AMW motors and AMW family are compatible and certified for use with Gorilla hardware,so long as you use the AMW bulkhead and nozzle. This includes KBA Animal Compatible loads, and I assume the hub cap as well...



Braden

UPscaler said:

Paul Holmes from Tripoli sent an email out stating that all AMW motors and AMW family are compatible and certified for use with Gorilla hardware,so long as you use the AMW bulkhead and nozzle. This includes KBA Animal Compatible loads, and I assume the hub cap as well...

Click to expand...

Not a valid assumption.

That's compatibility of "AMW-compatible reloads and hardware", not "CTI-compatible reloads and hardware".

Until it's issued as a statement, or appears on the combined list, it's not an approved combination.

-Kevin

I went with my wife to a Davy Jones concert, I do have to admit he put on a better show than Kansas that I dragged her to .
But the sad part is I am old enough to know the words to the Monkey's songs
Cj just can not keep a secret.


Tim

WILDMANRS said:

But the sad part is I am old enough to know the words to the Monkey's songs


Tim

Click to expand...

Does that mean you were singing along? :y:

WILDMANRS said:

Cj just can not keep a secret.

Click to expand...

As soon as he can keep a secret, I'll give him his truck back.... :wink:

-Kevin

blackjack2564 said:

NOZZLE & CARRIER READY TO INSTALL:
Looks strangely familiar to the AMW nozzle when assembled, doesn't it?
Grease the first 2 inches of the case, then install the carrier assembly the same way you would a graphite nozzle. Push and twist till you are clear of the inside groove.
Slide the nozzle washer over nozzle into position.
Install the snap ring.
Rear assembly done. Onto the forward end.:grin:

Click to expand...

I think this pic shows the carrier installed on the nozzle backwards. :y: The outer oring must be closer to the fwd end of the motor/rocket, because the oring must be fwd of the outer thrust ring groove or the case will be pressurized in an area that is 1/2 as thick as the rest of the case. See the diagram from the CTI instructions below.

I checked, and you are correct 5X7, the internal oring goes towards the rear of the nozzle.

You got me there! I dropped the assembly on the table, when I hastily put it back together for the pic I DID put it in backwards, why the nozzle is not flush with the carrier.

Did not realize I had done it, till after I was editing the 76 pics & post 2 days later. All the hardware, Hubcap & re-load had been re-sealed and stored in it's proper place. I did not want to take another 1-2 hrs. to re-stage everything.

No excuses, ya busted me out, should a been more careful!

Now for the FRONT CLOSURE & HUBCAP:

Grains and liner in position.

O-ring placed on the CTI front closure.

Slide Front closure into position.

Jim,

Don't you ever sleep?
Bleary eyed Adrian

1 HubCap washer installed.

2 Slide HubCap on top of closure & washer.
All of this would normally be done with the case standing up, making it much simpler. But for the sake of pics i had to do it this way.

3 Install snap ring.

THIS IS WHERE THE HUBCAP DOES IT"S JOB:
4 notice the gap between the snap ring & the base of the HUBCAP?
Carefully snug the bolts in a cross pattern .... one at a time...just like you would after changing a tire. Snug one, then the one across from it till you have done all. A little at a time so you keep things level. This is why the bolts, to adjust the closure for any number of cases

5. Closure and HubCap snugged down. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN! You can damage the liner. You can feel the compression as you snug it up. Stop then.
[ Yes I know the gap between the closure and HubCap is not even, remember this is just staged for photo's ]

Rattling grains when shook is normal and no need for concern. You are now ready to fly!

NEXT: using a spacer with the HubCap.

jd2cylman said:

Jim,

Don't you ever sleep?
Bleary eyed Adrian

Click to expand...

Don't you? Lol:smile:

Thanks for this thread Jim. Very instructive. This answers a lot of questions.

blackjack2564 said:

Dr J....which cases can be flown under warranty coverage with the commercial CTI loads?

Click to expand...

We will honor warranties with all casings (unless it was an obvious defective case before loading the reload).

Note however that only Pro75 reloads in AMW75 cases are certified at this moment.

Jeroen

Jeroen_at_CTI said:

Note however that only Pro75 reloads in AMW75 cases are certified at this moment.
Jeroen

Click to expand...

Is something like this for the AMW54 using Pro54 reloads possible? Coming?

Viperfixr said:

Is something like this for the AMW54 using Pro54 reloads possible? Coming?

Click to expand...

Hey Mark,

They already have re-loads for AMW 54mm hardware,that fit without issue. Called AMW Pro X.
You just use a nozzle carrier. Everything else comes with the load. Nozzle & O-rings. You use your AMW forward closure.

Have had them for quite awhile the Skid loads are awesome. Wildman has had them and the carrier for over 2 years. I flew several at O-burg last summer. They have them for all the 54 cases.
We beta tested them back in 2007 with the late Paul Robinson [AMW]

Check out this link to see the many available re-loads. Scroll to bottom of page;

https://pro38.com/products/pro54/motor.php

On Wildmans site just click your appropriate case size:

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=754&Sub=763&Sub1=771