What is The Status of Commercial Hybrid Propulsion?

[DRAGON64]

Who is still producing motors? Are your clubs still supporting this form of propulsion? Are you still a nitrous junky, or have you turned back to solid matter?

I have been absent from the hobby for many years now, and when I left the hobby, my local club was not even pulling out the bottle or GSE anymore... I fear that hybrids are going away... Can someone tell me otherwise?

[billspad]

Who is still producing motors? Are your clubs still supporting side of propulsion? Are you still a nitrous junky, or have you turned back to solid matter?

I have been absent from the hobby for many years now, and when I left the hobby, my local club was not even pulling out the bottle or GSE anymore... I fear that hybrids are going away... Can someone tell me otherwise?

I don't know who is still producing motors but I fly Skyripper and RATT and bought reloads for the SRS motors this year.

We usually have between 1 and 3 hybrids flights at CMASS launches when we fly on our high power field.

[DRAGON64]

I love the Skyripper design, I used to own the 29mm and the 38mm systems. When I did not see much activity on the SRS website, I was afraid that they may be fading from sight...

[brianc]

I'm still flying my SRS sets (29/38/54).

This month at NEFAR's Bunnell Blast, a RATT K240 hybrid is planned
to be launched.

And each spring, NEFAR hosts the Florida Space Grant Hybrid competition
http://www.floridaspacegrant.org/fsg...ion2.php?ID=25

TTRA sees the occasional Propulsion Polymers motor.

So, yes hybrids are alive and well in Florida!

Where I see the decline is with the non-monotube designs (HyperTek)
and prefilled tanks...

[UPscaler]

Skyripper, Contrail, Hypertek and Alpha Hybrids are still in business.





Braden

[DRAGON64]

If this thread were any kind of indicator, I would say that I think I have my answer... Thats a shame too, as Hybrids used to turn a lot of heads... at least until the delays at the pad ensued, then the hybrids started to turn stomachs.

If I knew that I would not be stuck with hardware that I could not fly, I would come back strong with everything Skyripper has certified... and rip the sky! Alas, the Skyripper camp was silent to my inquiry.

[WillMarchant]

Hi Johnnie:
Doug's says at http://pratthobbies.com/products.asp?cat=16 that he's got the 29 and 38mm SkyRipper stuff in stock.
Best wishes,
Will

[DRAGON64]

Hi Johnnie:
Doug's says at http://pratthobbies.com/products.asp?cat=16 that he's got the 29 and 38mm SkyRipper stuff in stock.
Best wishes,
Will

Hey Will, thanks for that heads up... I priced out all of the systems and reloads last night, and found that I can get everything I want from Miller Motor Works, Commonwealth Displays, and Pratt Hobbies. I was also looking at getting my own launch system from Pratt... wow did my expenses ever go sky high in a hurry.

[WillMarchant]

Good that you've got some options in case a vendor is out of stock, Johnnie. The Pratt GSE is pretty nice. Does your club have hybrid GSE? Or maybe a member is already equipped?

[DRAGON64]

Good that you've got some options in case a vendor is out of stock, Johnnie. The Pratt GSE is pretty nice. Does your club have hybrid GSE? Or maybe a member is already equipped?

I have not investigated our clubs equipment lately, but all indications point to a full lack of interest of hybrids. The club has either sold the HyperTEK GSE that it once had, or it is buried in someones garage. Although not cost effective for an individual, it would be easier if I just bought my own. I can cut some costs, if I can find a 20lb tank locally.

[WillMarchant]

Sorry to hear you'll have to splash out on your own gear. It is nice to be completely independent.

Just be careful about used/local equipment that it's appropriate for use with nitrous... I predict that any of those vendors would be happy to answer "health and safety" questions.
Best wishes,
Will

[DRAGON64]

Sorry to hear you'll have to splash out on your own gear. It is nice to be completely independent.

Just be careful about used/local equipment that it's appropriate for use with nitrous... I predict that any of those vendors would be happy to answer "health and safety" questions.
Best wishes,
Will

If I have to spring for my own, I plan to use Pratt Hobbies Modules one and two. I have owned these before, and they are a nice and efficiet way to fill/fire monotube hybrids. Thanks for your help Will.

Edit:

I had a long phone talk with Doug Pratt, and he says that Todd Moore (Skyripper Systems) is looking for another mfg to make his cases for him, that was five weeks ago. He says that both Skyripper and Contrail are still pumping out motors and loads.

I am still researching my options, as I have received official notice that the local club no longer supports hybrids at launches. They can provide launch support, but no longer supply nitrous and do not bring out the GSE for launches. If I do decide to get back into rocketry flying hybrids, then it looks like I will have to be self-sifficient in that respect.

Even though that kind of sux, it also makes complete sense...

[Spacefreak]

In the past when I didn't want to bring all of my equipment to fly some mono-tube hybrids... I just bring the tank and a solenoid with bare wires. You then borrow 2 leads off the local club equipment:

i.e. Pad 1 leads hook up to your solenoid and Pad 2 leads hook up to your igniter. Fire pad 1 until you see a vent, swap to pad 2 to launch.

I have even done this with Hyper-TEK motors as well, you just need to verify polarity on the HV module.

-Scott

[QUOTE=DRAGON64;255000]nice and efficiet way to fill/fire monotube hybrids. QUOTE]

[AlphaHybrids]

As far as my club goes - they just got rid of their two 75# nitrous tanks and just supply the solenoid and box now. You have to bring your own nitrous.

I'm the only regular hybrid flier between two clubs and I fly 99% research hybrids.

With more and more demand for people's time, many just want to show up at a launch, pop a motor in, get the rocket off the ground and then home in time for the latest [insert time wasting TV show here].

Also, I think that motor inflation has something to do with it. When I started a K motor used to turn all the heads at a launch. Now an M won't even do that. You need an N or better to get people's attention. No one pays attention to the H-L shots much anymore and I've found that people are less interested in what other people are flying - it seems more about me me me.

Edward

[billspad]

A lot of times I'm the only one flying a hybrid at our club's launches and the 200' uphill walk to the pad we use was really a chore with a 20 lb. tank and that was followed by another trip with the wires and finally the rocket. Since I fly monotube motors and most of them are G's and H's I put together a system that let's me do it with just one trip to the pad with the rocket in one hand and the GSE in the other. All the GSE including the solenoid and hoses, radio (it's wireless), vent detector, battery and 20 oz. tank fits in a tool bag. I fill the 20 oz. tank from my 20 lb. tank. It will do two launches but I only use it for one and then refill it. If I'm doing two launches in one day I'll bring two tanks. Any more than that and I bring the big tank. The 20 oz. tanks have the advantage of being small enough to fit in a cooler if they need to be heated or cooled to keep the pressure within limits.

[brianc]

I fill the 20 oz. tank from my 20 lb. tank. It will do two launches but I only use it for one and then refill it.

What method are you using to fill the smaller tank? Do you have a pump or just chillin'? Do you weigh the tank during/afterward to ensure the fill?

Sorry for the side-line questions. Back to regular programming...

[billspad]

What method are you using to fill the smaller tank? Do you have a pump or just chillin'?

I'd love to get a pump but I haven't seen anything under $400 so it's kind of hard to justify. I throw the small tank in the freezer overnight.

Do you weigh the tank during/afterward to ensure the fill?

Both. I put it on the scale while it's filling but with the hoses it's hard to be exact. I check it when I'm done.

[jis2]

Too bad Aerotech got away from hybred I really liked the fact that you went to the pad loaded and ready to go and you didnt need a bunch of expensive equitment ! Are you listening Gary?? Jim

[AlphaHybrids]

I've used the freezer method for filling my 20 pound tank from my 75# tank. I keep it in there for 6ish hours and then it fills very easily. Just take a before weight.

Edward

[DRAGON64]

I am afforded a number of options now; first of all, the local club is interested in selling me their unused 20lb tank, and 2nd, they have asked that I make a fair market value offer for their complete HyperTEK GSE. I will look at the GSE and tank this Sunday to see if I want to make that offer, and try to determine just how much. If I am interested enough, they will put it to a vote at the December meeting, som regardless, I will not know anything until then.

So what if this all pans out. Well, essentially it opens up some choices of hardware for all monotube and HyperTEK line-ups. Although I am not a big fan of HyperTEK anymore, I really love the 440cc & 835cc systems (only a selct few classes from each system).

Time will tell...

[troj]

$200 - $300 seems reasonable for the HyperTEK GSE, considering the cost of Solenoids and valves. Possibly more, based on fill stems and condition of them.

I think I paid $125 for my 20lb cylinder, though costs look to have gone up considerably since then.

-Kevin

[DRAGON64]

$200 - $300 seems reasonable for the HyperTEK GSE, considering the cost of Solenoids and valves. Possibly more, based on fill stems and condition of them.

I think I paid $125 for my 20lb cylinder, though costs look to have gone up considerably since then.

-Kevin

I know that they have recently laid out some funds to get new custom launch pads built, as their equipment is really aging. I'm hoping this deal goes through, so they can make more. I'll know more about the set-up when I meet with one of the members this weekend to look it all over.

[legranddudu]

..very interesting thread indeed...for us in Europe and especially in Germany it makes a lot of sense, regarding commercial AT & CTI prices here..but it is too tekki for most of the guys. By the way would be good to know if someone sells used hybrid equipment, seems to be really rare from what I can read...
Denis

[legranddudu]

I am just wondering if people would also have some hybrid motors in their garage they stopped using. I know this is not the yard wanted thread but before I post there I just want to get some feedback here at the specialists. I am pretty much impressed by Contrail hardware but obviously Hyperthek would be also a good choice for me in Europe. So if you know Hybrids hardware in very good shape stocked in garages let me know..we could have a good deal..
Denis

[legranddudu]

Gents,

just continuing along the hybrid route, I would like to understand pros and cons comparing Contrail and Hypertek hardware. From the documents I have seen so far not really esay to answer. Can I get some valuable comments from you guys flying these hybrids?

thx Denis

[karlbaum]

Gents,

just continuing along the hybrid route, I would like to understand pros and cons comparing Contrail and Hypertek hardware. From the documents I have seen so far not really esay to answer. Can I get some valuable comments from you guys flying these hybrids?

thx Denis

I fly Contrail, Skyripper, and Rattworks. I know guys that fly Hypertek. These four companies are the only ones that I know of that are still in business. They produce reloads in batches and so sometimes they are in short supply.

To answer your question comparing Contrail to Hypertek: As you may know Contrail uses Pyrodex pellets for ignition and Hypertek uses gaseous oxygen. So that makes Hypertek GSE a little more complicated but pyro free. Pyro free is an advantage where pyrodex pellets are difficult to purchase.

As far as availablility and price of reloads and hardware you can do your own research on that. Pratt Hobbies carries Contrail and Black Dog Rocketry carries Hypertek. I would email the dealer for availablility because sometimes they are out of stock.

One thing that I like about Contrail motors is that I can easily produce my own research reloads because the design is simple. You could get the same thing out of Hypertek tanks with the addition of Trojan hardware which is produced by Contrail.

Other than that I think they are both good motor manufacturers that are well established. I don't think either company will be going out of business soon.

[legranddudu]

Karl,

thx for these interesting details. Trojan, Contrail and even Hypertek are unfortunately showing such poor and dead websites...Can tell me about Trojan Reloads (the commercial ones) and GSE.

- Do the contrail reloads fit into Trojan motors?
- Do you use same GSE for all brands ?(well I understood contrail just need pyrodex, which is more simple...)
- CATOs: who has the "worse" reputation?

We try to understand pros and cons before moving for one or the other vendor. The Trojan story sounds really good but that maybe a dead route too (like their websites...).
So far I was offered only used Hypertek hardware. Because people prefer their contrails?

Waht do you think?
Thx Denis

[DRAGON64]

The Trojan website is stagnate, as is the product line. They have 1 certified load, an H or I, firget which. I emailed the owner recently, and they claim that they are going to re-launch the products and the website, but I doubt it. There is a 15-page thread in the TRF archives that was started by Contrail/Trojan... makes for fun reading, as it was a total bash... err smash hit.

During my email I asked on availability of the product, and they claim they have everhting ready to go. Here is a place overseas that is selling off their inventory:

http://www.rebelrocketry.com/shop/in...TCsid=zuyehoww

Including custom tanks that are not HyperTEK:

http://www.rebelrocketry.com/shop/in...TCsid=zuyehoww

[legranddudu]

thx Johnie & Karl,

from your answers and a few other lectures I understood SRS and contrail seems to be really great quality and more simple hardware to use. Now just from the "show" side: most of the reloads they offer seem to burn loudly but not really smoky or sparky... which from the 2 suppliers delivers most spectacular reloads mixtures?

Denis

[karlbaum]

Here is some comparrison of Skyripper and Contrail.

As far as effects I really like the 54mm Skyripper. It really does rip the sky. Also for the same length motor SRS seems to have more total impulse than Contrail. Skyrippers come with an AP preheater grain but I don't know if it is included in motors shipped overseas. You could make your own preheater grains from Aerotech 54mm delay grains. The reloads do not include an igniter. One thing; that is not a big deal; is that with the Skyripper you need to heat up the nozzle when you disassemble it because it sticks to the fuel grain.

Contrail offers some very nice reloads such as sparky motors and fast burning motors. Contrail makes faster motors than SRS. For Contrail you will need to purchase Pyrodex pellets separately for preheater grains. The pellets are made for muzzle loader rifles. Contrail reloads include an igniter but it requires 24 volts. I just provide my own 12 volt igniter.