special effects?

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skybuster

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Hey everyone,
I was shooting off some fireworks the other day and I got to thinking. So, bottle rockets are fueled by black powder (just like rocket engines) but they have effects such as sound or sight. My questions are: do any manufacturers produce engines with extra effects, if not, is it possible to reload your own?

thanks
 
Hey everyone,
I was shooting off some fireworks the other day and I got to thinking. So, bottle rockets are fueled by black powder (just like rocket engines) but they have effects such as sound or sight. My questions are: do any manufacturers produce engines with extra effects, if not, is it possible to reload your own?

thanks

I hear what you are saying but it's probably not a good idea to blur the lines between rocketry and fireworks. It's hard enough sometimes to convince the old lady with the little dogs that you are not shooting off fireworks in a public park.
 
Some high-power motors are available that produce showers of sparks. This is rather spectacular, but it is a definite fire hazard. It is not rare for "sparky" motors to be banned from a launch where the grass is particularly dry.

Less problematically, you can also get "smoky" AP motors. Dense black exhaust. And some other AP formulations have green and red exhaust flames.

About 20 years back I staged a Rocketflite F101-0 to a F101-7SS. It was a "dusk" launch. The "sparky" upper stage ignited a few hundred feet up. Just amazing.
 
Well, there were the "FX" motors made by MRC (IIRC) a couple decades ago... Those were pretty cool... Basically they were "smoke generators"-- you had a second launch controller that you fired off the FX motors first, they would sit there chugging away with smoke, and after a few seconds you did your countdown and launched the actual standard-issue rocket motor propelling the rocket with the second launch controller.

Theoretically any of the "effects" chemicals mixed with BP for fireworks could be mixed with BP propellant to create similar effects in the motor (IE different colors, sparks, etc.) Some of them might substantially change the performance of the motor though over the standard BP formulation. Adding sparks to the tracking smoke might be nice (or more tracking smoke for that matter!)

BUT, and this is a biggie... it's not a good idea... and it's the main reason I'm not particularly fond of special formulation 'effects motors' even in larger HPR motors, especially sparkies... they TRULY blur the distinctions between "model rocketry" (or "hobby rocketry" if you prefer) and "fireworks" or pyrotechnics. Most people nowdays have no idea of the history of the long, hard fought battle over DECADES to get model rocketry legally separated from fireworks. With our now more litigious society, increasingly risk averse, ever fearful of terrorists and threats, ever more regulated and increasingly paranoid and intrusive government and neighbors (who feel everybody's business is THEIR business) this is really the wrong direction to take, IMHO. We have enough to deal with just to maintain the status quo WRT regulations and such-- we don't need to blur the distinctions even more and draw more attention to ourselves, IMHO.

Later! OL JR :)
 
I hear what you are saying but it's probably not a good idea to blur the lines between rocketry and fireworks. It's hard enough sometimes to convince the old lady with the little dogs that you are not shooting off fireworks in a public park.
That makes sense, some people are bound to have problems with stuff
 
Some high-power motors are available that produce showers of sparks. This is rather spectacular, but it is a definite fire hazard. It is not rare for "sparky" motors to be banned from a launch where the grass is particularly dry.

Less problematically, you can also get "smoky" AP motors. Dense black exhaust. And some other AP formulations have green and red exhaust flames.

About 20 years back I staged a Rocketflite F101-0 to a F101-7SS. It was a "dusk" launch. The "sparky" upper stage ignited a few hundred feet up. Just amazing.
The smoke engines would be great for some of my standard engine powered rockets just to be able to track them in the sky while they're up high
 
Well, there were the "FX" motors made by MRC (IIRC) a couple decades ago... Those were pretty cool... Basically they were "smoke generators"-- you had a second launch controller that you fired off the FX motors first, they would sit there chugging away with smoke, and after a few seconds you did your countdown and launched the actual standard-issue rocket motor propelling the rocket with the second launch controller.

Theoretically any of the "effects" chemicals mixed with BP for fireworks could be mixed with BP propellant to create similar effects in the motor (IE different colors, sparks, etc.) Some of them might substantially change the performance of the motor though over the standard BP formulation. Adding sparks to the tracking smoke might be nice (or more tracking smoke for that matter!)

BUT, and this is a biggie... it's not a good idea... and it's the main reason I'm not particularly fond of special formulation 'effects motors' even in larger HPR motors, especially sparkies... they TRULY blur the distinctions between "model rocketry" (or "hobby rocketry" if you prefer) and "fireworks" or pyrotechnics. Most people nowdays have no idea of the history of the long, hard fought battle over DECADES to get model rocketry legally separated from fireworks. With our now more litigious society, increasingly risk averse, ever fearful of terrorists and threats, ever more regulated and increasingly paranoid and intrusive government and neighbors (who feel everybody's business is THEIR business) this is really the wrong direction to take, IMHO. We have enough to deal with just to maintain the status quo WRT regulations and such-- we don't need to blur the distinctions even more and draw more attention to ourselves, IMHO.

Later! OL JR :)
Thanks! This makes perfect sense why most engines do not have these effects so that the line can remain clear that the two are completely different

thanks again
 
The answer is basically yes, but only the larger motors tend to have it. In small motors, the effects aren't as visible, and some of the effects (like the sparks) might need a bit more care to launch safely.

Here's an example of a large sparky motor though, just to give an idea of what's available:
 
I bought some fireworks-stand smoke balls from (yes) a fireworks stand a couple years ago, and I have used them for a couple of "effects" launches, to produce a nice billowing cloud of smoke around the pad for a few seconds before I launch the rocket and give the illusion the motors are thrusting away prior to liftoff. Just as Luke describes above with the old "EFX" smoke motors.

I tape the smoke balls just below the blast deflector.

I just use my backup Electron Beam ignition system to set off the smoke balls when we hit "ignition sequence start", then use my main launch system to light the main motor when the count hits zero.

The smoke balls only burn about 10 seconds so if "ignition sequence start" is at T-minus 8, they burn out within a second or so after the rocket takes off (while everyone is watching the ascending rocket).

It's all theatrics, but it is pretty cool.
 
I bought some fireworks-stand smoke balls from (yes) a fireworks stand a couple years ago, and I have used them for a couple of "effects" launches, to produce a nice billowing cloud of smoke around the pad for a few seconds before I launch the rocket and give the illusion the motors are thrusting away prior to liftoff. Just as Luke describes above with the old "EFX" smoke motors.

I tape the smoke balls just below the blast deflector.

I just use my backup Electron Beam ignition system to set off the smoke balls when we hit "ignition sequence start", then use my main launch system to light the main motor when the count hits zero.

The smoke balls only burn about 10 seconds so if "ignition sequence start" is at T-minus 8, they burn out within a second or so after the rocket takes off (while everyone is watching the ascending rocket).

It's all theatrics, but it is pretty cool.

Similar to a neat idea Dr. Zooch used on his "milkstool" launched Saturn IB... He actually staged the model on the pad. Basically, he "CHAD staged" the rocket by taping a booster motor underneath the standard flight motor in the rocket, and then securely taped the booster motor to the milkstool part of the pad. Since the flame was "up in the air" it didn't burn through the deflector underneath the pad, but at ignition provided a second or two of billowing smoke from the burning booster motor as it thrusted, then "staged" at burnout, igniting the main rocket motor in the Saturn IB, blowing it free of the spent booster motor casing and freeing the rocket to then take off and fly a normal single stage flight profile...

Made a nice effect he said... Just gotta make sure the booster can't go anywhere and that the flame doesn't impinge on the blast deflector enough to cut through it like a blowtorch...

Later! OL JR :)
 
The answer is basically yes, but only the larger motors tend to have it. In small motors, the effects aren't as visible, and some of the effects (like the sparks) might need a bit more care to launch safely.

Here's an example of a large sparky motor though, just to give an idea of what's available:
That looks pretty cool
 
I bought some fireworks-stand smoke balls from (yes) a fireworks stand a couple years ago, and I have used them for a couple of "effects" launches, to produce a nice billowing cloud of smoke around the pad for a few seconds before I launch the rocket and give the illusion the motors are thrusting away prior to liftoff. Just as Luke describes above with the old "EFX" smoke motors.

I tape the smoke balls just below the blast deflector.

I just use my backup Electron Beam ignition system to set off the smoke balls when we hit "ignition sequence start", then use my main launch system to light the main motor when the count hits zero.

The smoke balls only burn about 10 seconds so if "ignition sequence start" is at T-minus 8, they burn out within a second or so after the rocket takes off (while everyone is watching the ascending rocket).

It's all theatrics, but it is pretty cool.
Wow, that would be a great addition especially to a scale model. The Saturn V is suddenly calling to me ;)
 
Similar to a neat idea Dr. Zooch used on his "milkstool" launched Saturn IB... He actually staged the model on the pad. Basically, he "CHAD staged" the rocket by taping a booster motor underneath the standard flight motor in the rocket, and then securely taped the booster motor to the milkstool part of the pad. Since the flame was "up in the air" it didn't burn through the deflector underneath the pad, but at ignition provided a second or two of billowing smoke from the burning booster motor as it thrusted, then "staged" at burnout, igniting the main rocket motor in the Saturn IB, blowing it free of the spent booster motor casing and freeing the rocket to then take off and fly a normal single stage flight profile...

Made a nice effect he said... Just gotta make sure the booster can't go anywhere and that the flame doesn't impinge on the blast deflector enough to cut through it like a blowtorch...

Later! OL JR :)

Actually, I didn't have it taped down. I you three offsetting thumbscrews firmly affix the lower booster engine.

But I found that works better is converting motors into "squibs" which is a process that I will not fully disclose here in a public forum because it modifies the engine if not used properly could be hazardous. Squibs however, produce flame and a lot of smoke but zero thrust. If you run into me at a launch sometime I'll be happy to privately discuss process with you.
 
Actually, I didn't have it taped down. I you three offsetting thumbscrews firmly affix the lower booster engine.

But I found that works better is converting motors into "squibs" which is a process that I will not fully disclose here in a public forum because it modifies the engine if not used properly could be hazardous. Squibs however, produce flame and a lot of smoke but zero thrust. If you run into me at a launch sometime I'll be happy to privately discuss process with you.
Just light the wrong end of a BP booster motor:)
 
Actually, I didn't have it taped down. I you three offsetting thumbscrews firmly affix the lower booster engine.

But I found that works better is converting motors into "squibs" which is a process that I will not fully disclose here in a public forum because it modifies the engine if not used properly could be hazardous. Squibs however, produce flame and a lot of smoke but zero thrust. If you run into me at a launch sometime I'll be happy to privately discuss process with you.

Thanks for the correction... I forgot about the thumbscrews... don't you worry that they might tend to squash the casing a bit irregularly and end up causing a grain/case debonding separation or grain crack and end up causing a cato?? It's pretty easy to get a heck of a lot of pressure out of a thumbscrew! (Guess if you're careful it's not a big deal, but for those of us who tend to turn things "just a half-turn tighter" it might be...)

That WAS a really cool liftoff BTW...

Later! OL JR :)
 
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