rocket launched rogallo glider

We launched the rocket again today. The conditions were clear with no wind. The rocket climbed to 988 ft this time as compared with 616ft on the first launch. The differences were 1500gm wgt -about 100gm lighter, a g80 with 137ns as compared with 120ns and fins modified with trailing edge perpendicular to the fuselage rather than angled forward (perhaps reducing drag?). The booster flew straight and the parachute deployed perfectly after apogee. At that altitude it was difficult to see what was happening with the glider but eventually it appeared in a vertical dive with the wing fabric fluttering noisily and no apparent response to up elevator. But at around 50ft it pullled out of the dive flying horizontally while the fluttering stopped. I turned it to the right and attempted to level out for landing before it touched down fast but with no damage.
The whole flight lasted just 30 seconds from start to finish.. ending with all components recovered intact but little actual controlled gliding time!

Reasons? 1) The glider flew well when tested with a hand launch but perhaps the ballistic deployment from the booster impedes the full unfolding of the wing

2)The control surfaces are not large enough to cause it to pitch up at high speed.

Suggestions - increase the size of the elevators
- increase their pitch
-replace the current laser 4 receiver with a DX6i receiver which might allow for more adjustment to be made
-modify the wing deployment mechanism to reduce the tendency for it to jam

We launched the rocket again today. The conditions were clear with no wind. The rocket climbed to 988 ft this time as compared with 616ft on the first launch. The differences were 1500gm wgt about 100gm lighter, a g80 with 137ns as compared with 120ns and fins modified with trailing edge perpendicular to the fuselage rather than angled forward (perhaps reducing drag?). The booster flew straight and the parachute deployed perfectly after apogee. At that altitude it was difficult to see what was happening with the glider but eventually it appeared in a vertical dive with the wing fabric fluttering noisily and no apparent response to up elevator. But at around 50ft it pullled out of the dive flying horizontally while the fluttering stopped. It turned it to the right and attempted to level out for landing before it touched down fast but with no damage.
The whole flight lasted just 30 seconds from start to finish.. ending with all components recovered intact but little actual controlled gliding time.

Reasons? 1) The glider flew well when tested with a hand launch but perhaps the ballistic deployment from the booster impedes the full unfolding of the wing

2)The control surfaces are not large enough to cause it to pitch up at high speed.

Suggestions - increase the size of the control surfaces
- increase the pitch of the surfaces
-replace the current laser 4 receiver with a DX6i receiver which might allow for more adjustment to be made

The main error made on this launch was to stand way too close to the launch pad-around 40meters. The rocket flew over us and when the glider deployed it was of course practically invisible. Also I forgot to apply full up trim to the elevator and by the time I saw the glider and applied up elevator to level it out it was below 10mr agl.

for the next launch - stand at least 100mr from the launch pad to give a better profile of the flight.
-look for darker/higher visibility material for the rogallo wing
-apply elevator up trim immediately after deployment(this cant be done prior to deployment as the v-tail is folded and clipped together inside the booster)

Good lessons, also stand up wind as well, especially on humid or cool days, had one launch where the glider pitched right into the smoke trail and was almost entirely in the smoke trail for 8 seconds till I was able to see and pitch it over...fortunately it didn't need any drastic boost adjustment..Sort of waited for it to appear out of the smoke, and waited, and waited, then tried to walk around the smoke till I finally saw it....

Frank

Thanks for the wise suggestion Frank. I'm hoping that i can get at least one decent flight without any more foolish mistakes. I want to prove that the glider is definitely capable of sustained and controllable flight and can stay airborne for a substantial time. Then I can look at upgrading it with a camera and perhaps autopilot for higher altitudes.

Great project. It looks like the rear part of your wing is too tight. This kills the lift. It should be tight towards front...then starting about 1/3rd the way back, it should get progressively more loose to give a good "billow" towards the rear. Here is a very short video that may help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1v8Fo12V88&feature=plcp

The girl on the video made one of these exact models about the same size and using about the same materials (no metal, wood and polyester fabric)...but it was before she learned the above tricks. And it was free flight. This may inspire her to dig that out and add some "billow".

Use a giant black Marks-A-Lot marker on maybe the outside 2" of the glider...that will help with visibility without adding weight or messing with the material.

If you are a NAR member...get this perfected and go to any contest with it and fly it as a record attempt...you will own the G Flexwing BG RC record!

Feel free to PM for more advice if you want it.

thanks for the ideas Rush ,i have been trying for a taut wing but as you say it may be better to have the wing billowing at the back. I have successfully 'thrown' it with a taut wing and had reasonable glides, but if a couple more boosted flights are unsuccessful i will give the billowing wing a try.

Without the billow, the rogallo is a low lift "regular" wing. You will need a decent amount of up elevator to get the angle of attack that you need to keep that puppy up. It could work.

Here is a video of the glider deploying from the booster showing the unfolding of the wings and the v-tail.

[video=youtube;S3azHP6eEW8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=FLXPqeVDVjgT1JKkh9MhYt2w&v=S3azHP6eEW8&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/video]

We launched the glider again today and this was by far the best flight as far as duration was concerned though the height was 60ft less than the previous one. The booster climbed to 928ft(282 mr) and the glider deployed without a problem. I immediately applied uptrim and it settled into a slow steady glide. I had removed some weight from the glider meaning the CG of the rocket was a fraction further back. Photos indicated that the rocket was fishtailing on the way up and the steady breeze may also have contributed to the lower altitude. There was a total of 67 seconds glide time so I was able to check out its response to controls. It responded readily (v-tail configuration) and stalled once at altitude and (embarrassingly) on landing when i flared the nose causing it to stall and land upside down. During the flight I found the orientation difficult to distinguish.
This time we stood 150mr from the launch pad so as to get a good side on view but with a steady breeze blowing the glider was soon over our heads. My biggest problem was then guessing whether it was about to stall. Nevertheless it was a very pleasing advance on the previous flights and I now know that it is capable of gliding in a controlled fashion.
Getting reasonable photos of it in flight have proven more difficult than getting the glider into the air. I had a camera mounted on a bicycle helmet on my head (looked ridiculous)and the sun glare from my Laser 4 antenna blinded it for most of the flight apart from the landing approach during which i flipped the glider. Still shots with a digital SLR also failed to capture anything worth showing as far as the flight was concerned.
On inspection of the booster it was apparent that the good outcome was a little fortunate.
The cap of the ebay had seperated from the tube and the lower section of the booster was dangling from the upper section by the igniter wires and the battery was gone. If the igniter wires had given way the upper section containing the glider would have fallen.
On arriving home I realised that the piston meant to deploy the parachute and push the engine mounting out through the back of the rocket was still in the tube. In the video there is no sign of it hanging from the parachute. I am intrigued then as to 1)how the parachute deployed without having the piston emerge
2)Why the ebay tube seperated from the end?
Any suggestions?
Anyway, a promising flight by the glider and a good basis for further developments eg mounting a keychain camera onboard.
View attachment 102600

Great project! Thanks for keeping us up to date!

Nice going there, glad to see this hashed out!!

This reminds me of the flexie RGs I used to fly, about this same size, over 20 years ago. Of course, mine were not RC, and the largest I ended up scaling this to was around a 9ft span on an I161 way back then. Seems that flexies that 'carry something', either a payload or a 'rockety airframe', do not like to fly heavy, even if your wing loading looks great. That's where you have the advantage with RC, to keep it from pointing nose down and 'speedlocking' into a dive even if trimmed correctly.

Would love to see this with camera footage, especially if you can fly it slow enough!!

Here is the video of the last 30 seconds of the glide. It had already been flying for about 37 seconds. Apologies for the quality of the video, will try to do better next time. And the landing speaks for itself!

[video=youtube;Wd3zOEubNlk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd3zOEubNlk&list=FLXPqeVDVjgT1JKkh9MhYt2w&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/video]

Good job Phillip! I notice that every time you fly it, it gets closer to the outcome you want. Keep at it!

Ari.

Just wondering if anyone has used the #3 808 keychain camera? I have bought one to mount in the nose cone of the glider. I am following instructions but it doesn't seem to be saving anything on the 2gb SD card which I have inserted. I have saved a picture file on it from the computer and it works but there is nothing when I put it in the keychain camera and attempt to record a movie or a photo???
Any ideas?

I don't know which number I have, but mine works ok, followed the instructions I found online....do you have some instructions and it just isn't working for you, or do you not have instructions?

Frank

philip said:

Just wondering if anyone has used the #3 808 keychain camera? I have bought one to mount in the nose cone of the glider. I am following instructions but it doesn't seem to be saving anything on the 2gb SD card which I have inserted. I have saved a picture file on it from the computer and it works but there is nothing when I put it in the keychain camera and attempt to record a movie or a photo???
Any ideas?

Click to expand...

burkefj said:

I don't know which number I have, but mine works ok, followed the instructions I found online....do you have some instructions and it just isn't working for you, or do you not have instructions?

Frank

Click to expand...

I have the basic instructions which came with it and followed a Youtube instruction video. The indicator light is flashing as it should when i press the buttons but nothing is recording on the SD card. Perhaps i need a different SD card to record video, this one is 2GB. Perhaps just a faulty camera?

I've owned two of those. One worked for about 10 videos, the other one was dead on delivery. Gave up on them and moved on.

ckreef said:

I've owned two of those. One worked for about 10 videos, the other one was dead on delivery. Gave up on them and moved on.

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that seems like a possibility did you try another brand?

I bought 4. One did not work. Two have worked very good, although, I am uncertain how well they are working until I check the video. I bought memory cards at Wal-mart. The cards cost almost as much or more than the camera.

aerostadt said:

I bought 4. One did not work. Two have worked very good, although, I am uncertain how well they are working until I check the video. I bought memory cards at Wal-mart. The cards cost almost as much or more than the camera.

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sounds like it is just a matter of luck whether they work or not!

Basically cheep Chinese junk. (At least the $12.00 cheepies are) Some work and some don't. My brother still has one that works a year later. My two are dead and buried in the local land fill.

ckreef said:

Basically cheep Chinese junk. (At least the $12.00 cheepies are) Some work and some don't. My brother still has one that works a year later. My two are dead and buried in the local land fill.

Click to expand...

back to the drawing board

can anyone suggest a camera which is reliable?

I have one of these: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__13447__Turnigy_KeyChain_Camera_w_o_memory_card.html (showing as backorder right now) and it's working OK. It's reliable in the sense that it produces the same results each time. It's the down-looking camera in Vulcan maiden video. My complaints are (1) can't suppress yellow date and time display and (2) ridiculous UI (Press one button for 3 seconds, wait for LED to blink 3 times, press anther button, etc. It's impossible to know what state the thing is in, and if I go a couple of days between flights, I can't remember the steps)

I have one of these on order: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17200__HD_Wing_Camera_1280x720p_30fps_5MP_CMOS.html . I'm happy to share my experience with it once it arrives.

Ari.

I think there is a vendor here on the boards who sells the keyfob cameras and checks them out before he sells them and I think guarantees them....I can't remember who it was, they were about $20 but included a memory card if I remember right.

bayourat sells cams...

Later! OL JR

thanks for the suggestions Ari, Frank ,Luke

I just bought a 16gb micro sd card to replace the 2gb and the camera is now working. Ooops!

Well get on with it then! We want to see more Rogallo flights!

Ari.