25th October 2011, 12:27 AM
I've been looking at some scale models and I came across Apogee rockets website and I found the Vostok and Soyuz models. I was reading the description of them and in the product description, "...These kits are miniaturized models of real launch vehicles used by the Europeans (Ariane), and Russians (Vostok and Soyuz). However, the scale is not that good."
My question is, has anyone had experience with Norris' model rockets, and if so, have they improved the scale and detail to the rockets?
25th October 2011, 03:49 PM
I have the Norris Vostok, ordered through Apogee. If your looking for a lot of detail in a stock kit, then it's probably not for you. You would probably have to scratch a lot of the "bits/details" to make it realistic. Example: the interstage structure is not built up by using dowel or platic rod, it's a clear tube with a decal wrap of the interstage struts. I'm not sure of any Vostok that is highly detailed, out of the box, other than maybe the MPC version. And with that being said, they are hard to find and I couldn't testify to how accurate it is, even though i own one.
25th October 2011, 04:40 PM
I have several Noris kits including some OOP ones. Some came from Apogee and some came from other sources. What you read on the Apogee site is correct and has NOT changed.
Noris makes some kits of subjects that are made by nobody else. In that respect they are nice. They do require some experience, however, especially if you do not have one of the Apogee versions with English instructions.
In my opinion, they are not "first rate" but they do fill a niche.
John A. Lee O.S.L.
Alamo Rocketeers NAR Section 661
NAR 87285, L1 8 March 2008
TRA 03040, L1 8 March 2008
Photos of the "Fleet": http://www.flickr.com/photos/23694991@N03/
I used to tell Mom, "...I want to fly rockets when I grow up!"
She said, "Make up your mind, you can't do both!"
25th October 2011, 06:20 PM
As a general rule of thumb. NO Scale kit is going to be all that good out of the box. There are a very few exceptions Norris is not one.
Scale "kits" should be looked at as starting points for just about any subject vehicle you can name. Apogee Saturns are an exception to this.
as Jal-3 mentioned Norris does supply starting points for several vehicles not found anywhere else. If your not ready to start you scale modeling from scratch they can be a VERY basic beginning...but Check every single dimension as You'll Likely find Huge variences to deal with.
25th October 2011, 10:04 PM
Das Modell/Norris kits are certainly not for everyone. Other builders on other forums have stated they would not wish these kits on their worst enemy. On the Vostok/Soyuz, ask yourself - are you ready for skill level 6 - are you ready for vacuform - are you ready to join the Master Race because that is what it takes to build these babies. Can you deal with nose weight - can you deal with less than perfect instructions and marking guides - do you have the patience of a Saint to properly finish these monsters? Do you have the skills to install custom strakes to mount the boosters? Can you deal with building light and strong? Can you take the criticisms from the rivet counting scale guy who just spent 10 years building a perfect scratch cluster model? Can you deal with silly peel & stick decals? Can you properly install a Fallschirm Haltenrung you just found in the kit and is not in the instructions? Can you make custom paper clip antennas? Can you make a custom ping pong ball Vostok capsule? Do you know not to use the supplied NON BIODEGRADABLE pillow bunting recovery wadding? Can you tightly pack a plastic chute and make it open in freezing weather? If you answered YES to all of the above questions you are plain crazy like me and you should spend the big bucks it takes for these very rare rockets.
Just ignore the doubtfull looks you will get bringing it to the pad, at least one kid will say that it is really cool then spend several minutes looking at the rocket on the pad. It will fly! Just ignore the gathering crowds waiting to see a huge crash because you know you have it balanced it properly. Get ready to repair at least one of the paper fins after every flight – you can do it!
I have flown the Ariane many times on a C6 3 and it is fine out of the box – but the worst instructions of all time – so funny those Germans! Ripped it on a D21 4 to the delight of the HI PO guys – they even called it a nice scale job. They also liked the Vostok, even on a D12 3 because they had never seen one and it flies straight. I think it is up to six flights now, with each fin having to be repaired. The Soyuz is to be built this winter.
Maybe for Christmas I will get my wife’s German friend to call up and order the V1, A9 and Natter direct from the Reich. When launching those all I have heard is to use lots of nose weight and believe in the power of prayer!
Be one of the few, the proud, the crazy people who will even attempt DAS MODELL.
Last edited by Daddyisabar; 25th October 2011 at 10:10 PM.
25th October 2011, 11:23 PM
NAR/Tripoli Level II
25th October 2011, 11:38 PM
That is not one of the Apogee kits where the tubes and instructions have been replaced. Apogee also adds some nose weight. The Apogee kits have the picture of the all green Vostok.
26th October 2011, 04:36 AM
27th October 2011, 11:27 PM
There are some reviews about Noris/Das Modell kits in our German Modellraketen Forum. As some of the previous speakers mentioned, Noris (not Norris) is controversal, even in Germany. Most kits contains poor quality components and the instructions are almost useless. Pricing, even in Germany, is usually higher than most competitors.
Yes, Noris offers scale kits no other company has. On the other hand, keep in mind that you may need to replace most parts (such as body tubes, fins and so on) due to the poor quality (or invest a lot of time to overhaul them) - so you may consider to make a re-build using parts from Estes, Quest or other companies.
28th October 2011, 12:04 AM
That is why I like the Apogee kits - they make the best of the nice vacuform and add new tubes. I can't imagine what the original tubes must be like - even worse than an Estes Guardian? The directions are good enough, you just have to be careful and not need to have your hand held . . . I know that is a tall order for most BARS!
As for the paper fins I am a bit undecided. They are fine on the Ariane and they do break on the Vostok, but the way it always seems to land and the nature of the back end of the rocket would lead me to believe even the highest quality Baltic Birtch fins might not do any better. Maybe even worse since they do not break away as easy. . . No, bullet proofing is always better!
3rd November 2011, 05:22 AM
With the second snow of these season the Winter builds are now in full swing, starting out with the Soyuz. WOW, and I thought the Vostok was challenging. On this one the luxury of a paper shroud has given way to having to build 5 clamshell boosters, cutting off #5 to make the transition. It will be more challenging to paint and I will probably only fly this one on composite motors. While the glue dries on the Noris I am going to build the High Power Cosmodrome Vostok at the same time.
Darn the Coca Cola,from here on out it is nothing but EKU Kulminater 28, with Stalingrad - "Dogs do you want to live forever!" playing in the background. To get this one finished I will go through the full mini series version of Das Boot, the Stalingrad remake, Der Stern Von Afrika, 08/15, Die Brucke and even the Finnish "Winter War" and the Italian "Attack and Retreat." Yes, only with constant reminder of massive pain and suffering in the freezing cold of the Eastern front will I be motivated to build this one. Such is the life of the Das Modell scale kit builder.
Maybe in the near future there might be a Yankee BMS Soyuz release, big bucks but well worth it! Then back to Sam Adams lager and Kelly's Hero's!
18th November 2011, 02:55 AM
Germany making POOR QUALITY PRODUCTS???????? I never could have imagined such a thing, everything I have made there is simply outstanding
Originally Posted by Oliver
18th November 2011, 02:57 AM
ROFL, best of luck!
Originally Posted by Daddyisabar
18th November 2011, 02:58 AM
Thanks for the input all, I'll have to refine my skills and find some detailed info before I can tackle, let alone afford one of these
18th November 2011, 06:44 PM
I got cranking on mine and it is not that bad. Just trace around your vacuform parts with a ball point pen. Carefully cut out with good scissors then trim with Xacto and sand for the final edge. With patience any intermediate builder can get on together.
19th November 2011, 12:58 AM
That's great to know! Something may or may nor have just been added to my Christmas list LOL
Originally Posted by Daddyisabar
19th November 2011, 06:34 PM
Yes, sometimes they do
Originally Posted by skybuster
I know the general opinion is that "Made in Germany" stands for outstanding quality. This is true in many or even most cases (specially premium products like cars, electronics and so on). But just like in any country, there is good and bad. In the field of model rocketry, Noris is not a quality producer. Furthermore, I have seen few European rocketry products that are comparable to whatīs offered in the States. Ok, there are differences even between US-made products, but in general, US manufacturers have more knowhow regarding rocketry products.
One point is that the US market is far larger. For producing quality rocketry components like body tubes, a certain number of volumne is required (no paper tube manufacturer is producing just a few pieces). In addition, in the case of Noris, I would say the rocketry knowhow of the founder is, letīs say, a little bit limited.
24th December 2011, 05:41 AM
As I'm building the Soyuz I noticed the paper centering rings are not cut on center - this alone is enough to send the American rocket builder into a frenzy. I also don't care for hacking a booster section for the lower transition. It might be stronger but it is going to take more filling work as opposed to the paper one on the Vostok. With all the "Gotchyas" these are better left to your 3rd or 4th skill level 5 kit.
25th December 2011, 01:41 PM
Scale is scale in these sizes... but if you want to have something that looks good, is great to build and flies like a dream, then you should look at the Dr. Zooch kits. They are as close "scale" wise as these are and fun! Wes has the Vostok, Soyuz and the Sputnik (not to mention a load of others...I love the Space Shuttle).
25th December 2011, 05:49 PM
i've built 2 kits, and without a doubt, they were the worse two kits i have every built, seriously,
the hummel kit was bad, the A9 was the worst kit i've built out of easily over 150 kits, and that includes Fun Rockets - swinger.
26th December 2011, 12:49 AM
Are you taklin' my kits, or the other guy's?
Originally Posted by Gillard
26th December 2011, 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by Dr.Zooch
i've built a few of yours - excellent.
26th December 2011, 05:18 AM
agree 100% with this...Dr. Zooch kits are a lot of fun to build, fly great and are affordable...he has the Luna variant of the R-7 as well!!
Originally Posted by Bravo52
Wes's website is like a candy store to a kid...you can't go there and pick just one kit...you may eventually decide on one to buy, but its with the understanding that you are going to have to go back and buy the other 2-3 that you were considering and had it narrowed down too....and by that time, he'll slip in a new one, like the EFT-1...and then the process starts all over again...
27th December 2011, 01:44 AM
29th December 2011, 09:28 PM
You never saw the first Noris series of the 1980īs. They have used body tubes that disassembled themselves even before the first flight took place
Originally Posted by Gillard
30th December 2011, 06:55 PM
It looks like a nice day to paint outside so the Noris Soyuz will be getting its first coat of primer. After every step in building this monster you look back and say "That step was harder to do than any rocket I have built before." Yes, build one of these Das Models and you can finally get your Iron Cross 3rd Class. The launch field will be "where the Iron Crosses grow," just like James Cobern said in the classic movie. Cluster a Soyuz for the Knights Cross, Cluster High Power with multi stage, achieve Korolev's Cross and get the Pour Le Merite.
Build one of these and you will yearn for the more simplistic and easier days of building a Saturn IB. You will look back with fondness on the easy American launch escape towers of years past as you ponder how to attach the R-7 booster sections. Comparatively, for those old US classics you just have to shake the kit box and the rocket falls out, these R-7s take the patience of a Saint. Good thing the Soyuz is now the only way to get Americans to space, it is now OUR rocket that the kids can look up to. The Saturns and Space Shuttles are just memories of a US manned space program that was, so kids, build you Soyuz kits and strive for the Order of Lenin, because it is the only ride available for your low earth orbit dreams.
Last edited by Daddyisabar; 31st December 2011 at 06:34 AM.
25th January 2012, 05:23 PM
Flew the Das Modell Soyuz at this weekend's launch on an F-12 cut down to a 4ish delay. Up with the initial thrust and then at about 45 degrees with the wind under the rest of the burn, so not a whole lot of height and long walk over the dam. Still going too fast at ejection and broke the tubular nylon shock cord but it was so near to the top of the dam as to not cause any damage. I was lucky it was not piloted by British Dam Busters! Two of my lightly CA tacked fins broke clean off on landing but that is exactly what I wanted to happen, just tacked them back on. The Soyuz is again a bit trickier to fly than the Vostok, Where are the good old absolutely stable flights I used to get with 3FNC rockets?
Lots of new people at the launch looking at the Noris kits but they also loved the little Zooch Sputnik, Luna and 1B. Maybe some more new crazy scale fliers were born.
16th February 2012, 05:32 AM
I built the Noris Vostok a few years back and used components from paper models to make it highly detailed, especially for the upper stage/nose section. Required extensive modifications from the kit, but it's possible. Flew it only once (on a D12-3) as the ejection charge partially ripped the engine hook about an inch and I haven't been able to figure a way to repair it.
Last edited by dwmzmm; 16th February 2012 at 05:35 AM.
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.,
Old Rocketeers # 724
16th February 2012, 05:44 AM
And a few more pics of the first flight:
Originally Posted by dwmzmm
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.,
Old Rocketeers # 724
16th February 2012, 05:46 PM
Just push it back in, run your finger up the tube to flatten any ripped paper, get out the tape for a friction fit and a nice tape job on the rear end of the motor, and fly her again. Loose pack as much as possible on wadding/chute. When flying the Vostok you have to find the party before the Party finds you! The Commissar will never know, and as long as it works you are a hero of the Soviet Peoples!
Originally Posted by dwmzmm