Noris Rocketry

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Just push it back in, run your finger up the tube to flatten any ripped paper, get out the tape for a friction fit and a nice tape job on the rear end of the motor, and fly her again. Loose pack as much as possible on wadding/chute. When flying the Vostok you have to find the party before the Party finds you! The Commissar will never know, and as long as it works you are a hero of the Soviet Peoples!

Yes, I've already considered that; the issue is it's pretty difficult to get good access to the engine mount area due to the location with those R2 strapons all around. And I think the rip was more caused by the extra weight of the nose area with the added clay to make it stable. Plus, Estes engines are known for their nuclear ejections too......
 
This is an old thread but there is little information out there on the Noris kits. I am building a Natter I bought off of Fee Bay and I must say it is a real "Nasty Girl." This one came straight from Germany so it is untainted by American parts. Since this thread was started I have built and flown lot of scratch build airplane rockets and the Natter Kit is still a challenge. Just seeing if anyone has built and flown one of these Naughty Nazi wonder planes. Maybe I am the sole fool in the country who would buy and build one. I am of course taking it down to 24mm so I can use an E12 4 or composites from F12 to F24.

My Momma always said if you don't have anything nice to say about something then say nothing at all. Well, when it comes to the paper tubes . . . sound of crickets. . . BUT Momma, I have to say something! At least it is squishy so it makes an easy oval shape for the fuselage, but it can also GETCHA by wanting to torque a bit as the wood glue dries and shrinks. I am about three quarters of the way through the build and already have lots of war stories. The Natter kit is definitely not one for the average American builder. It is Nasty, Nasty, Nasty. Vacuform plastic, nasty tubes, bizarre techniques and attachments, lots of Gotchas, lots of head scratchin’ and cussin'. But it is a Natter and I love it.:eek:
 
I know someone who built the Noris Natter and it flew well enough, though I don't know whether he added any extra nose weight. But I do also remember someone else who built the V1 from the same company and that was unstable with the nose weight supplied; even after he had added a bit extra, it was only semi-stable, tipping to near horizontal shortly after launch before becoming stable and heading off in search of London. (Which was going to be a neat trick as it was launched in the west of Scotland, but that thing had ambition. :D)

My only personal experience with a Noris kit was their Ariane V, and I know what you mean about the body tube. I'm lazy. I don't normally bother filling in tube spirals. But the spirals on that tube were so deep and wide that even I had to put something in them.

The motor mount on the Natter and V1 is 25mm, intended for a motor produced in Germany. There you need a licence for any motor which has more than 20g of propellant. The regular Estes D12 has 24.93g. So a German company produced the D7, 25mm diameter and 20g of propellant, therefore less powerful than an Estes D but the most powerful motor you could get in Germany without needing a licence. The company which produced it doesn't produce motors any more, so not even in the Natter's homeland will you find a motor to fit that mount.

So you'll want to replace the mount with a 24mm one. The extra power of a real D, let alone a composite 24mm motor, means you won't have any problem lifting the nose weight needed to make the Natter stable - a concept with which I believe you are very familiar. ;)
 
I know someone who built the Noris Natter and it flew well enough, though I don't know whether he added any extra nose weight. But I do also remember someone else who built the V1 from the same company and that was unstable with the nose weight supplied; even after he had added a bit extra, it was only semi-stable, tipping to near horizontal shortly after launch before becoming stable and heading off in search of London. (Which was going to be a neat trick as it was launched in the west of Scotland, but that thing had ambition. :D)

My only personal experience with a Noris kit was their Ariane V, and I know what you mean about the body tube. I'm lazy. I don't normally bother filling in tube spirals. But the spirals on that tube were so deep and wide that even I had to put something in them.

The motor mount on the Natter and V1 is 25mm, intended for a motor produced in Germany. There you need a licence for any motor which has more than 20g of propellant. The regular Estes D12 has 24.93g. So a German company produced the D7, 25mm diameter and 20g of propellant, therefore less powerful than an Estes D but the most powerful motor you could get in Germany without needing a licence. The company which produced it doesn't produce motors any more, so not even in the Natter's homeland will you find a motor to fit that mount.

So you'll want to replace the mount with a 24mm one. The extra power of a real D, let alone a composite 24mm motor, means you won't have any problem lifting the nose weight needed to make the Natter stable - a concept with which I believe you are very familiar. ;)

I just glued a 24mm tube inside the 25mm one. It worked OK and can handle any shot gun ejection charge. I glued in a motor block for an E12 and sealed the tube above for extra strength and durability. After the centering rings were in I ran some CA into the spirals and it soaked in real nice. All of the bare naked paper tubes are going to get at least one coat of sanding sealer. And YES, I added even more nose weight for the bigger Yankee motors.:eyepop:

Power, nose weight and prayer are all I will have on my side when I take Das schreckliche Mädchen to the launch pad. Good to know at least some one in the UK has flown it with out serious bodily damage.

Put in one of those new F44's and I might find the speed of matte paper fins attached to vacuform plastic with CA.:y:
 
This is an old thread but there is little information out there on the Noris kits. I am building a Natter I bought off of Fee Bay and I must say it is a real "Nasty Girl." This one came straight from Germany so it is untainted by American parts. Since this thread was started I have built and flown lot of scratch build airplane rockets and the Natter Kit is still a challenge. Just seeing if anyone has built and flown one of these Naughty Nazi wonder planes. Maybe I am the sole fool in the country who would buy and build one. I am of course taking it down to 24mm so I can use an E12 4 or composites from F12 to F24.

My Momma always said if you don't have anything nice to say about something then say nothing at all. Well, when it comes to the paper tubes . . . sound of crickets. . . BUT Momma, I have to say something! At least it is squishy so it makes an easy oval shape for the fuselage, but it can also GETCHA by wanting to torque a bit as the wood glue dries and shrinks. I am about three quarters of the way through the build and already have lots of war stories. The Natter kit is definitely not one for the average American builder. It is Nasty, Nasty, Nasty. Vacuform plastic, nasty tubes, bizarre techniques and attachments, lots of Gotchas, lots of head scratchin’ and cussin'. But it is a Natter and I love it.:eek:

I very much look forward to progress on this.
 
I very much look forward to progress on this.

Thanks. I am ready to bring out the green putty and sanding sealer. The Beauty School treatment will be a full camouflage paint job with Reich Defense stripes. The kit included two huge plastic chutes so I am thinking of bringing the heavy nose cone down separately.
 
Thanks. I am ready to bring out the green putty and sanding sealer. The Beauty School treatment will be a full camouflage paint job with Reich Defense stripes. The kit included two huge plastic chutes so I am thinking of bringing the heavy nose cone down separately.
That is how the real thing was to be recovered. The pilot would also have been recovered by parachute so, for bonus points, put a suitable size action figure in there with its own parachute.
 
That is how the real thing was to be recovered. The pilot would also have been recovered by parachute so, for bonus points, put a suitable size action figure in there with its own parachute.

I just glued a perfect plastic parachute guy to my Nantucket sound kit bash. Back to the Dollar Store to see if I can find another for the natter. Would have to stick him as far forward as possible up by all that Plasticine nose weight. With all that falling Kraut junk it is going to be like the movie Iron Sky.
 
Here are some suggestions if you are going to build the Natter.

This is like a scratch build because the instructions don't always work well. DO NOT buy this kit if you can't take thinking on your own, improvising, ditching the instructions, or have a hard time working with vacuform, squishy paper tubes, matte paper fins or little blue paper Mache balls. It is very far from a straight forward build, much worse than the other Noris kits. All the kits measurements are based on prefect fits so be careful if you are not perfect. It is by far the nastiest kit I have built (I have not yet built the Klingon Battle Cruiser.) After building the Natter no kit will seem that hard. By the end of the build you will want to ditch all the silly Euro ways and yearn to return to the good ole American fiberglass kits with parts and instructions that make model rocketry sense.

Like The Mighty and Powerful Tim said in the Holy Grail: Do not try this kit if you doubt your courage, for few men have built and launched the Natter and lived to tell their story. The little Natter has a mean streak a mile wide. It is cruel and foul tempered. . . look at the BONES!

I did not translate the instructions, which might help, it might not.

I just glued the 24mm tube inside the 25 mm one. It worked OK but you could spray mount a wrap of copy paper before gluing for a more pro fit. Don't try if you are squeamish about wood glue lock. If you dilly dally around you are simply toast.

The instructions have you glue in the centering rings before gluing in the motor tube as is the traditional method. I did it that way and I got them a bit crooked which greatly impacted the rest of the build. Very hard to get straight. I guess they have you do it to make the soft paper tube into an oval shape and get good fillets, but it is quite hard to do the first time. I would mark centering lines on the rings and mark even more guide lines inside the tube than shown in the directions. Getting straight in all three dimensions and in the right place is just nasty. Or just remeasure everything and do it the traditional way. The tube is flexible enough, although it would not be easy, but at least you have a better shot of getting things straight.

Set centering ring using tacks of super glue. Many times during construction you have to tack with CA while wood gluing a paper edge at the same time. Not a kit for double glue joint purists.

After centering rings are set, seal tube spirals with CA. Stiffen all tubes and paper fins with sanding sealer. Remember, filler is your friend.

Put the wings on before the tail assembly. Not the other way around as stated in the instructions. Glue the stabilizer fin on first and then set the elevators in line with the wings. The measuring method in the instructions will work only if everything is perfect which is seldom the case when working with paper and vacuform plastic. A jig to set the wings would help, otherwise you are left to mount the wings as outlined in the instructions, which can work but is hard to do accurately by hand.

I used a 1/4 inch launch lug. Attach them as far apart as possible with tacky glue while using a rod to align as the glue sets. This process requires patience to get right since you are gluing aligned lugs on two opposed planes.

Ignore chute instructions from the 70's and properly reinforce and tie off the shroud lines. They are nylon so you have to melt and seal the end with a BBQ lighter.:y:

I put a motor block in for an E12, no motor hook. Place motor as far forward as possible for obvious reasons. I put mine flush with the end of the tube and it ended up a bit recessed from there but still OK.

The plastic nozzles are at an angle to be sure to have them pointing out.

The instructions for some reason do not show using tabs made of scrap to attach the two halves of the vacuform tail cone (engine mount shroud) together.

You have to make your own tube marking guides.

Always rough up the surfaces for a good bond. I just CA the paper fins to the vacuform plastic and use an accelerator for a thin fillet. I would rather have a clean break on landing for an easy repair than trying to bulletproof a bond using heavy epoxy and other techniques. Any weight on the hind end is a huge problem. Build Light! This kit is not for those who like to toss substandard parts for heavier and higher quality ones and then use epoxy – unless you have some big motor power to offset the gobs of extra nose weight.

I haven’t got to installing the recovery system yet but I will use the two chutes separately, one on the body and one on the nose.
When the time comes to push the button I will be as scared as any scratch built rocket I have ever built. That is why you must LOVE your Noris Natter, otherwise certain death awaits you.:shock:
 
I wanna see this thing now, post up some pics. I've seen some of your scratch builds.....this is harder? dang I'm sticking with North American after reading this.
 
Sounds like a Noris kit is a wussy free zone :). Count me in :)

A local dealer has a Wasserfall in stock and ai am mighty tempted. If he had a Natter I would rush off and buy one....any kit with that much challenge sounds like fun to me. I love the challange of stuff like that....i cant see me buying many more kits at all because I just dont find them challenging enough....TLPs Gabriel would be for sure but the Natter sounds like a hoot to build.

If anyone has one and has been scared off by all of this let me know and I will take it off your hands.
 
I wanna see this thing now, post up some pics. I've seen some of your scratch builds.....this is harder? dang I'm sticking with North American after reading this.

Since all the parts are there it is a bit easier. The hard part is that you are not in complete control since there are directions which you have to sort out for yourself and work out all the conflicts. I have some pre beauty school pics on the fancy phone I will download at work. Can't show everything since it is a bit crooked and that is just too embarrassing.:eek: All the other problems of a scratch built airplane rocket remain as you make your mods and up motor the kit. Sticking with North America is a good idea. You would have to be crazy to use that long CTI 24mm case that would fit perfectly in the Natters long and reinforced motor tube. A high end epoxy job with upgraded components and you could take the Euro right out of the kit!:y:
 
Sounds like a Noris kit is a wussy free zone :). Count me in :)

A local dealer has a Wasserfall in stock and ai am mighty tempted. If he had a Natter I would rush off and buy one....any kit with that much challenge sounds like fun to me. I love the challange of stuff like that....i cant see me buying many more kits at all because I just dont find them challenging enough....TLPs Gabriel would be for sure but the Natter sounds like a hoot to build.

If anyone has one and has been scared off by all of this let me know and I will take it off your hands.

You will LOVE the Natter and will get it to fly nicely on a D12. I think they are still available in Germany with the V1 kit that looks cool and a tiny bit problematic. TLP Gabriel is cake next to the Natter, but building the Gabriel stock will get you in the right mind set for the Natter. The Noris Vostok is a great kit on a D12-3 and is a more straight forward build, although still difficult with building and attaching the vacuform boosters and paper shroud. I built the modified Apogee version, the original German kit looks even more challenging. The Natter would be cool next to your other awesome scratch builds.
 
Sounds like a Noris kit is a wussy free zone :). Count me in :)

A local dealer has a Wasserfall in stock and ai am mighty tempted. If he had a Natter I would rush off and buy one....any kit with that much challenge sounds like fun to me. I love the challange of stuff like that....i cant see me buying many more kits at all because I just dont find them challenging enough....TLPs Gabriel would be for sure but the Natter sounds like a hoot to build.

If anyone has one and has been scared off by all of this let me know and I will take it off your hands.

The Natter will indeed create a wussy free zone at launch. The North American Steely Eyed Missile Man is not afraid of explosives, Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships, the friction of the atmosphere at Mach 3, the vacuum or radiation of space. Three seconds of Hades from the N5800 is faced with sheer, square jawed machismo. Max Q is laughed at. But bring a low powered silly airplane rocket to the pad and they suddenly turn into a bunch of frightened school girls. Like an Elephant with a Mouse. Some giggle away as they wait to see the crash, others assign you to the pad farthest away while questioning your rocket science. After several heads up calls they finally find the courage to press the button. Patton was the most scared when addressing the English Ladies on the Home Front, and it got him in even more trouble. Show the North American Rocket Man how an English Lady flies silly, late war German scale rockets without the crutch of massive motors lifting gobs of nose weight!:cool:
 
The basis for good technique is to have a clean and organized work area with plenty of room for a cutting pad and lots of light.

IMG_20140615_110802307.jpg

Where's Waldo? I mean Where's the Natter?

Pre beauty school pics:

IMG_20140614_153437394.jpgIMG_20140614_153516261.jpg

All new and bright blue the chubby little Natter reminds me of fat old Goering in his horrid light blue uniform. Time for some Dunkle Grun and decals.

IMG_20140615_141630830(1).jpgIMG_20140615_141715696.jpgIMG_20140615_144932944.jpg
 
Holy carboley Batman - that looks like a real 'fun' build :) The vacuform parts look like more hard work than having to scratch build it - from scratch....with a blunt knife...in a coal cellar and with your thumbs broken.

Wow - I am stood back in admiration here for anyone who can turn that thing out. It doesnt put me off (though I doubt I could ever get one that good) but I am going to shelve it until I have done the Schmetterling rocket. Good luck to you on the paint job - I dont suppose for a second Noris have included transfers for this.
 
Holy carboley Batman - that looks like a real 'fun' build :) The vacuform parts look like more hard work than having to scratch build it - from scratch....with a blunt knife...in a coal cellar and with your thumbs broken.

Wow - I am stood back in admiration here for anyone who can turn that thing out. It doesnt put me off (though I doubt I could ever get one that good) but I am going to shelve it until I have done the Schmetterling rocket. Good luck to you on the paint job - I dont suppose for a second Noris have included transfers for this.

When you first open the kit and see the body and other tubes that look like they were cut with a butter knife, in a coal cellar, by a dude with his thumbs broken, and then you see those vacuform sheets, each representing one half of a nose and tail cone, you can get a bit scared. But it is not that hard, it just takes some elbow grease sanding the green Squadron putty. Noris does include peel and sick decals. One sheet is the "Sun ray" wing pattern used on an early test model - yellow with red boosters - very PC and legal in Germany. The other small sheet has small Balkankruzes and a 2 and 3 for the first maned test flight that did not go so well. I will be making a fantasy operational scheme using old Night Stuka decals.

With green putty, dope and high fill primer you can make anything look good. Even if you are a Beauty School drop out. When I load up an AT F24-4 for the Natter I will just have to remember GREASE is the word!
 
Well great job, you make it look easy, even though I can look closely & see some trickness to the build, you make it look like it just goes together.
 
Well great job, you make it look easy, even though I can look closely & see some trickness to the build, you make it look like it just goes together.

With crooked centering rings glued in I thought I was toast. But then I just tried to cover up the sin. When the elevators did not align with the wings using the measurements from the instructions I had to hack and slash the stabilizer to get it straight, causing even more sin. There is still enough play and sloppiness in the tube that I can make an offset tail cone kind of align with the nose cone. All the other surfaces had to be glued on crooked to align given the not so aligned body tube. If you spread the sin over a wide area, tell no one and make it look purdy, then everything will be fine. It is a Noris kit for Pete's sake and everyone just expects the worst. Hopesim is still showing less than a 50% chance of grievous bodily harm. Mindsim on an E12 is still a go in good conditions.
 
you cant tell if its off bt line in the pics, nor will anyone when its sitting on the pad, it's uniquness will distract all :) Nice touch with the german lid also, you plan on wearing it when you launch this badboy:p
 
The Pickelhaube is way too small and at 100 years old the silk liner is getting very fragile. I could bring out the M42 steel helmet but some folks at the club get even more nervous if I bring protective headgear and want to launch a silly airplane rocket.
 
Well you know I decided to skip the Schmetterling build and get stuck into a Noris Natter - I thought to myself...hmmmmm I could do a build thread and remove some of the fear from others. A really detailed thread and get some input from Daddyisabr too so it would be really comprehensive on how to build - guess what ? Noris wont ship to the UK - Crazy ol' world we live in. I can get stuff shipped from all over the planet including from the US and Russia too but not from a German company thats an hours flying time from me. Grrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!

If anyone knows of a US dealer that can supply let me know please. If not I will scartch build one after the Schmetterling build.
 
Well you know I decided to skip the Schmetterling build and get stuck into a Noris Natter - I thought to myself...hmmmmm I could do a build thread and remove some of the fear from others. A really detailed thread and get some input from Daddyisabr too so it would be really comprehensive on how to build - guess what ? Noris wont ship to the UK - Crazy ol' world we live in. I can get stuff shipped from all over the planet including from the US and Russia too but not from a German company thats an hours flying time from me. Grrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!

If anyone knows of a US dealer that can supply let me know please. If not I will scartch build one after the Schmetterling build.

That is weird. I thought there was a European Union but that is sounding more The Guns of August. Maybe they can ship to another country like Scotland :blush: or drop it off just a quick train ride away in France. :yawn: Now there might be even more fear surrounding this kit.:y: What is more trouble? Dealing with entangling European Alliances or building the Natter from scratch? That might be a close call either way.:wink:
 
Well you know I decided to skip the Schmetterling build and get stuck into a Noris Natter - I thought to myself...hmmmmm I could do a build thread and remove some of the fear from others. A really detailed thread and get some input from Daddyisabr too so it would be really comprehensive on how to build - guess what ? Noris wont ship to the UK - Crazy ol' world we live in. I can get stuff shipped from all over the planet including from the US and Russia too but not from a German company thats an hours flying time from me. Grrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!

If anyone knows of a US dealer that can supply let me know please. If not I will scartch build one after the Schmetterling build.

Let me know what you need. I'll stop over by their store to get you the stuff and ship it to you.
 
Well you know I decided to skip the Schmetterling build and get stuck into a Noris Natter - I thought to myself...hmmmmm I could do a build thread and remove some of the fear from others. A really detailed thread and get some input from Daddyisabr too so it would be really comprehensive on how to build - guess what ? Noris wont ship to the UK - Crazy ol' world we live in. I can get stuff shipped from all over the planet including from the US and Russia too but not from a German company thats an hours flying time from me. Grrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!
If anyone knows of a US dealer that can supply let me know please. If not I will scartch build one after the Schmetterling build.
Try Rockets and Things. It's not a US dealer but should be more convenient for you. ;) I've seen some Noris kits in their shop when they came to IRW, so they may have the Natter. (The website does not show everything they have in stock so you could try phoning them.)
 
Last edited:
Leo - thats really kind of you to offer (what a nice place the forum is :) ) lucky for me I have a friend who has a friend in Austria so a quick call to the right people has got an oredr placed. Noris will ship to her, she can ship to me. What a palava :) Amazing really that with the internet and the 'global village' that people wont ship stuff.

Adrian - I know Malc at rockets and things - I buy all my motors off of him as he is not far from where I live. I did throw an email at him but no reply as yet. I will be over his way soon again anyway for a restock on motors.

Daddyisabar - I shall be giving you a headache when I start the Natter build thread :)
 
I've got 3 Norris kits sitting in boxes. One is an Apogee version and the other two are the Euro versions. From all I have heard, there are excessively difficult kits to do well. That is one of the reasons mine are still in the boxes. I have a hard time getting an Alpha to come out well.

It strikes me that those of you with Norris kits would be doing us all a favor by posting dedicated build threads. Documentation of overcoming the obstacles posed by the kits would be both informative and instructional for the rest of us. It would likely be inspiring as well.

Just a thought... maybe a hint... suggestion, perhaps.

Alright! I'm begging!! Walk us through the process with lots of pics and detailed explanations.

PLEASE!!!!!
 
Leo - thats really kind of you to offer (what a nice place the forum is :) ) lucky for me I have a friend who has a friend in Austria so a quick call to the right people has got an oredr placed. Noris will ship to her, she can ship to me. What a palava :) Amazing really that with the internet and the 'global village' that people wont ship stuff.

Adrian - I know Malc at rockets and things - I buy all my motors off of him as he is not far from where I live. I did throw an email at him but no reply as yet. I will be over his way soon again anyway for a restock on motors.

Daddyisabar - I shall be giving you a headache when I start the Natter build thread :)

Great, ask away on the plucky little Natter. There really isn't that much to it, but what is there can be a challenge, but much less so than a scratch Reintochter. The headaches don't start until after you have screwed up. I screwed up on step two but managed to get it built. My bet will be you can tear right through the build with uttering only modest profanity.
 
Great, ask away on the plucky little Natter. There really isn't that much to it, but what is there can be a challenge, but much less so than a scratch Reintochter. The headaches don't start until after you have screwed up. I screwed up on step two but managed to get it built. My bet will be you can tear right through the build with uttering only modest profanity.

Ta....:) I am looking forward to the challenge, seldom swear or stress ...well hardly ever anyway. I have only ever done a vacuform thing once...ages ago...and it wasnt pretty either.

Jal.....I hereby promise to do a build thread on the Natter that will be exhaustive and peobably very dull so dont blame me if your bored witless by step 2 LOL
 
Back
Top