Zooch Saturn I SA-5

I'm just getting started on a Dr. Zooch Saturn I SA-5. The first few steps involve finishing and painting the balsa and tubes but I am looking ahead as the goop dries and have found a problem. I'm hoping the Doc will check in and let me know the answer.

The kit has three centering rings. The placement of the rings is critical. The aft one goes 1/8" from the aft end of the motor tube. The forward one goes 5.5 inches from the middle tube. The problem is with the middle tube placement. THe instructions say 1/4" in the text but 1/2" in the illustration.


Which is correct?

Of all the Dr. Zooch line, The Saturn I SA-5 is the one that most appeals to me, mainly because it is different from everything else. I'd had it for a while but did not start on it immediately because I wanted to get a few zooch kits under my belt first. I survived the building of the Little Joe LES and actually enjoyed buidling it so I figured it was time.

I know that Dr. Zooch packs a lot of rocket in those little boxes of his but I was unprepared for just how small the rocket actually is. That does not detract from the quality; it is merely an obervation.

The first step in the instructions is to do some painting. The balsa nose cone and transition needed to be painted white as did the various body tubes. I wanted this one to look good so I pulled out the Elmer's filler and applied it and set the parts aside to dry.

While the goop was drying, I got to work on the motor mount. The motor tube is set up along a butt mounted marking guide to transfer 8 marks evenly around the tube. An angle was then used to extend the lines.

With the lines transferred, I measured back the proscribed distance and made a narrow slit for the engine hook. The hook was then put into place.

The kit has three centering rings. Two have notches to accomodate the engine hook at the aft end and the other is plain. The instructions make a point of saying how critical the distances are. The rearmost goes an 1/8" from the end of the tube. The forwardmost goes 5.5" from the middle tube. The problem is the location of the middle tube. The text gives 1/4" and the illustration gives 1/2". I settled for taping the engine hook in place and posting a question for Dr. Zooch here on TRF. Perhaps I can find other things to occupy myself until I hear back.

Looking into the issues you've pointed out- will advise

JAL3 said:

The kit has three centering rings. The placement of the rings is critical. The aft one goes 1/8" from the aft end of the motor tube. The forward one goes 5.5 inches from the middle tube. The problem is with the middle tube placement. THe instructions say 1/4" in the text but 1/2" in the illustration.Which is correct?

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Use 1/2 inch- the text has now been corrected for later instructions. The only real critical distance is between the upper CR2060F and the next lower one down. That 5.25 inches must be on it your tanks are going to fit.

JAL3 said:

The kit has three centering rings. Two have notches to accomodate the engine hook at the aft end and the other is plain. The instructions make a point of saying how critical the distances are. The rearmost goes an 1/8" from the end of the tube. The forwardmost goes 5.5" from the middle tube. The problem is the location of the middle tube. The text gives 1/4" and the illustration gives 1/2". I settled for taping the engine hook in place and posting a question for Dr. Zooch here on TRF. Perhaps I can find other things to occupy myself until I hear back.

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How old is this kit???

A mod made a long time ago added a 4th centering ring- a CR2055F. If you don't have that PM me you snail mail address and I'll shoot one to you. It is used to help you center the S-IV tube properly.

Dr.Zooch said:

How old is this kit???

A mod made a long time ago added a 4th centering ring- a CR2055F. If you don't have that PM me you snail mail address and I'll shoot one to you. It is used to help you center the S-IV tube properly.

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I probably got the kit about 2 years ago but did not get it directly from you. It came either from Uncle Mike or from Jonrocket.


PM Sent.

Your needed ring will go out on Monday at no cost to you. Heck for all we know I may have missed that ring while putting the kit into the box. See if step 6 shows a 4th ring to seat the S-IV tube.

Dr.Zooch said:

Your needed ring will go out on Monday at no cost to you. Heck for all we know I may have missed that ring while putting the kit into the box. See if step 6 shows a 4th ring to seat the S-IV tube.

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Thanks.

I check out the instructions when I get back to the shop.

Looking forward to this one, John... Looking real good so far! I've got this kit in one of the big boxes I've gotten from the Doc over the past few months...

Keep up the good work!!! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

Looking forward to this one, John... Looking real good so far! I've got this kit in one of the big boxes I've gotten from the Doc over the past few months...

Keep up the good work!!! OL JR

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Thanks.

I actually go a little sanding done on it last night but the stress is on "little". I was not expecting to be there and I did not have the camera with me; not that I got enough done to actually take a pic.

I've enjoyed the Zooch models I've done. He needs to turn his attention now to the N1!

After a day of drying, I took some sandpaper to the balsa parts and started to sand. The result was fairly smooth and I was satisfied with it.

With the balsa sanded, I now needed to paint the parts. In addition to the balsa and the tubing, 4 small wooden downs and one larger one were set up in the spray booth and painted a gloss white. Two coats were applied.

When rolling your tanks it helps to lightly steam them just prior to rolling.

Dr.Zooch said:

When rolling your tanks it helps to lightly steam them just prior to rolling.

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Thanks for the hint....uh...how do you do that?

One trick I do, though it's probably too late for this build-- First thing I do after checking the fit of the nose cone(s) and transition(s) is harden them up with some CA... I use the pink bottle stuff from Hobby Lobby and it works great. After CA hardening, I give it a light sanding to take any raised fuzz/dust off the cone, hit it with the Elmer's filler, and then sand it down smooth, 2 coats of primer and then the finish sanding, and you can make them look like plastic cones...

Good luck and KUTGW!! OL JR

JAL3 said:

Thanks for the hint....uh...how do you do that?

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Find water, increase the temp. beyond 212 degrees F. The whispy gas coming off of it is called steam- once used to power trains and ships it was a handy power source back in the olden days... when they still taught us in school how to make it... or... "do that.":bangpan: It cannot be made with a computer, but can be made with a microwave- although it is then hard to capture and use

Dr.Zooch said:

Find water, increase the temp. beyond 212 degrees F. The whispy gas coming off of it is called steam- once used to power trains and ships it was a handy power source back in the olden days... when they still taught us in school how to make it... or... "do that.":bangpan: It cannot be made with a computer, but can be made with a microwave- although it is then hard to capture and use

Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I am conversant with several ways to make steam. I was actually wondering how its applied to the wraps. Do you just hold the paper over a boiling pot or do you try to channel it somehow?

Dr.Zooch said:

Your needed ring will go out on Monday at no cost to you. Heck for all we know I may have missed that ring while putting the kit into the box. See if step 6 shows a 4th ring to seat the S-IV tube.

Click to expand...

Step 6 does indeed show such a ring but no such ring was in the box. It had remained sealed until I opened it to start this project.

I heard back from Dr. Zooch in short order and learned that the instructions should say that there should be a 1/2" gap between the rearmost centering rings. Armed with that bit of wisdom, I glued the second ring 1/2" from the rearmost and the third one 5.25 inches forward of that. They were placed with yellow glue and fillets were run around both sides of all rings. The rings were also carefully checked to make sure that they were straigt.

While the glue on the rings was drying, I turned my attention to the spider beams used to algn the tanks. Using the template provided, 8 were cut from a sheet of balsa material. White glue was then used to place them along the lines drawn on the motor tube.

In short order, all 8 were in place and the assembly was set aside to dry.

Another Zooch project can be seen sitting in the background.

The next day, with the glue on the spider beams presumably dry, I put the motor mount assembly into the booth and shot it with black.

As the black paint was drying, I began the process of cutting out the LOX tank and fuel tank wraps. These were rolled on a rubber mat with the forming dowel to help the forming of the tubes.

JAL3 said:

Believe it or not, I am conversant with several ways to make steam. I was actually wondering how its applied to the wraps. Do you just hold the paper over a boiling pot or do you try to channel it somehow?

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Just jerking yer' chain bud. I do mine over a pan- use care to not do what I have done: 1)Burn fingers... instantly followed by 2) dropping the wrap into the boiling water.

Real rocket science eh?

JAL3 said:

Step 6 does indeed show such a ring but no such ring was in the box. It had remained sealed until I opened it to start this project.

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Ya' see... that's why I'm triggered to just send you the part- odds are it "jumped" out of the open box. No foolin', sometimes when you toss them in, if they hit the bottonm of the box on-edge, the bounce right out. If I'm moving too fast I can miss one.:bangpan:

Dr.Zooch said:

Just jerking yer' chain bud. I do mine over a pan- use care to not do what I have done: 1)Burn fingers... instantly followed by 2) dropping the wrap into the boiling water.

Real rocket science eh?

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a boiling pan it is. Thanks.

I also appreciate the advice. Somehow I got through 8 batchelors degrees including one in chemistry and never made the connection that an Erlenmyer flask at 350 degrees looks just like one at room temperature.:y:

Dr.Zooch said:

Ya' see... that's why I'm triggered to just send you the part- odds are it "jumped" out of the open box. No foolin', sometimes when you toss them in, if they hit the bottonm of the box on-edge, the bounce right out. If I'm moving too fast I can miss one.:bangpan:

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That type of thing happens to me also.

The worst is when I eagerly open a new kit and all the parts scatter when they see who is going to be assembling them.