BALLS

[Ethan]

John,

Congrats on a successful flight, and for engineering some incredible hardware. From the pictures it looks as though the short finocyl grain was placed nearest the nozzle. Is that correct? Also what was the insulator material, and how/where was it placed?

Forever learning....

Ethan

[mainer]

Just got back home tonight. 20 pounds of sand heavier and 80 pounds of propellant lighter.

Robert's sustainer was recovered about 23 hrs after the flight about 7 miles from the launch site. Altitude around 78Kft and Mach 3.2. The all-composite airframe held together with lots of burned-off paint. The P10K booster lost about 15% of total impulse when the finocyls were sheared by the forward insulator extruding down the core. But my hardware held together at 2.4x the designed operating pressure during the "event". Staging was at 2-seconds instead of the planned 8 seconds from burnout, causing the higher max velocity and lower altitude.

I wish I had the change to run into more people and introduce myself. Other than that (and the sandstorms) it was a great launch!

Thank you for posting this info about Robert.

[rdbones]

David;

Awesome photos !

Seeing the pictures and hearing the flight reports just makes me wonder if I am going to be a a point in making motors to have anything worth while for next year! Even if I dont I need to make the trek north and experience this first hand!

Kevin - David had a good shot of your flight - Congrats!

[troj]

Seeing the pictures and hearing the flight reports just makes me wonder if I am going to be a a point in making motors to have anything worth while for next year! Even if I dont I need to make the trek north and experience this first hand!

Kevin - David had a good shot of your flight - Congrats!

Hey, I flew off the Estes pads -- you can, too!

While my M wasn't the smallest motor flown (I know several who flew Ls), it was definitely near the bottom.

Still, it's cool, and I'm very happy with my flight.

The rockets are cool, but the people are better -- that, to me, is what makes rocketry so awesome! I got to spend 4 days hanging out with a bunch of great people!

-Kevin

[Monroe]

Jim Jarvis Damn near walked away from BALLS with the $10,000 Carmack Prize in case nobody knew that! Damn Jim after LDRS I didn't think you had a shot and then over 100kft at BALLS! All I can say is Damn that was close! Congratulations! Best run for the money I've seen so far! Way to go!

Monroe
Team Prometheus

[jsdemar]

John,

Congrats on a successful flight, and for engineering some incredible hardware. From the pictures it looks as though the short finocyl grain was placed nearest the nozzle. Is that correct? Also what was the insulator material, and how/where was it placed?

Forever learning....

Ethan

Yes, the finocyl grain was near the nozzle. The insulator disk was R45-based inhibitor. In the past, on a 5" dia motor, I had the finocyl at the top and glued in the forward insulator. Something to think about for the next time!

[MClark]

snip..While my M wasn't the smallest motor flown (I know several who flew Ls), it was definitely near the bottom.

-Kevin

We get I and Js and have had ex F motors launched. Little motors are hard to make.
The O and up motors get all the publicity but there are a lot more of the smaller motors.
I have made motors that others have launched at BALLS but I have not launched a rocket myself there in over 10 years.

Mark

[gregm]

Yes, the finocyl grain was near the nozzle. The insulator disk was R45-based inhibitor. In the past, on a 5" dia motor, I had the finocyl at the top and glued in the forward insulator. Something to think about for the next time!

So the issue was really just a problem with the insulator, not the location of the finocyl grain, right?

[gregm]

We get I and Js and have had ex F motors launched. Little motors are hard to make.
The O and up motors get all the publicity but there are a lot more of the smaller motors.
I have made motors that others have launched at BALLS but I have not launched a rocket myself there in over 10 years.

Mark

Hey Mark,

Did Dave fly the L3000 to L3000 he was talking about??

Any other interesting things from Frank's collection?

Greg

[MClark]

I was seldom near the LCO table so I did not hear what all was launched. Dave T did have a bunch of Frank hardware and he gave me a couple of 29mm cases from the first batch made. I also got the booster to the first Thunderbolt 2 (1994), it is pretty rough as it had been burned in and then dug up.
Dave posts on TRF so he can report on what he launched.

Mark

[THarrison]

at 2.4x the designed operating pressure

So what was the peak pressure? Mid spit I thought for sure we were about to see debris. The only bigger one I've seen and stay together was the Phoenix Q. I'd be very interested to see the accelerometer data.

[rdbones]

Hey, I flew off the Estes pads -- you can, too!

While my M wasn't the smallest motor flown (I know several who flew Ls), it was definitely near the bottom.

Still, it's cool, and I'm very happy with my flight.

The rockets are cool, but the people are better -- that, to me, is what makes rocketry so awesome! I got to spend 4 days hanging out with a bunch of great people!

-Kevin

We get I and Js and have had ex F motors launched. Little motors are hard to make.
The O and up motors get all the publicity but there are a lot more of the smaller motors.
I have made motors that others have launched at BALLS but I have not launched a rocket myself there in over 10 years.

Mark

While I did say that I hope I have some thing worth while - I wasnt saying that I would not go because I only had little motors no no no !!

I more than agree that a good portion of the fun is hanging out with all of the rockets guys and gals and picking their brains - and if I have motors to fly even better!

I am actually working on getting some more hardware so I have stuff to fly at ARG in February! In the mean time I will be making a few trips to the AHPRA monthly launches to get some flight data from the 38 & 54mm stuff I can fly

I have a goal of having at least 1 proven M ready for Balls next year, which I think is a very doable goal

[jsdemar]

So the issue was really just a problem with the insulator, not the location of the finocyl grain, right?

I think so. The same grain design and propellant formula flew 2 years ago in Robert's snap-ring hardware. This time it was in my bolted hardware.

[jsdemar]

So what was the peak pressure? Mid spit I thought for sure we were about to see debris. The only bigger one I've seen and stay together was the Phoenix Q. I'd be very interested to see the accelerometer data.

The acc data showed a very brief 40g+ spike after a normal 17g's, then leveled off to 6g's or so. Only a guess, but the spike was probably around 1200 psi. Design margin was about 1450psi before heat soak, and 900 psi @200C. There are nine 3/8th" hardened cap screws on each end, and 3/16" wall DOM casing.

[bandman444]

Anything?

http://projectmercury50.com/

Bryce

[UPscaler]

Anything?

http://projectmercury50.com/

Bryce

didn't happen...





Braden

[THarrison]

Here's my shot of the Beer Daddy CATO.

Looks like a Nuke is going off under the rocket...



-Todd Harrison

[GaryT]

Awesome! shot T.

[llickteig1]

Here's my shot of the Beer Daddy CATO.

Looks like a Nuke is going off under the rocket...



-Todd Harrison

Dang, I was out on a marathon recovery mission when Beer Daddy went. Sorry I missed it.

--Lance.

[gtm3323]

I like David's method of posting photos right to the forum, but I do not have the patience to do that 300 times!

Here is the link to my photos from balls 20. 300 photos total

One of the pictures actually proves Kevin was there!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1004077...07/BALLSXX2011

[butalane]

I like David's method of posting photos right to the forum, but I do not have the patience to do that 300 times!

Here is the link to my photos from balls 20. 300 photos total

One of the pictures actually proves Kevin was there!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1004077...07/BALLSXX2011

Great pics!

Does anyone know who the guy standing next to the "I love boobies!" rocket is? "Dave" something?

I ask because after waking us up at 2:30am my girlfriend and I nicely asked him to move away from our tent if he was going to yell and scream. He was clearly hammered and after we approached him proceeded to scream "FU** YOU" in her face at the top of his lungs and then tried to grab her in some sort of attempted hug. I had to intervene after he grabbed her arm and we left before things escalated. Now that I have a picture of him I'd really like to know the name of this class act.

[mannyskid]

Those are some sweet pictures Gerald! Makes me want to head out to BALLS next year. I've got a few projects in mind.

Manny

[Frederocket]

Great pics!

Does anyone know who the guy standing next to the "I love boobies!" rocket is? "Dave" something?

I ask because after waking us up at 2:30am my girlfriend and I nicely asked him to move away from our tent if he was going to yell and scream. He was clearly hammered and after we approached him proceeded to scream "FU** YOU" in her face at the top of his lungs and then tried to grab her in some sort of attempted hug. I had to intervene after he grabbed her arm and we left before things escalated. Now that I have a picture of him I'd really like to know the name of this class act.

You mean this individual? If so, can't put a name with the face, seems familiar though.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1004077...22652429274018

[troj]

Does anyone know who the guy standing next to the "I love boobies!" rocket is? "Dave" something?

Do you mean this guy? If so, that's Dave Leininger.

If you mean this guy, then I don't know who he is.

-Kevin

[El Cheapo]

Great pictures Gerald. The playa must be a "Razor Free Zone". Most of the fliers looked more worse for wear than the EZ-UP Canopies...lol

[troj]

Great pictures Gerald. The playa must be a "Razor Free Zone". Most of the fliers looked more worse for wear than the EZ-UP Canopies...lol

You kidding? A razor wastes space that can be used for rocket stuff!

[Burner]

Had a lot of fun at Balls, although as I think back I don't remember seeing a single Kosdon motor fly. Granted, I was out recovering rockets some of the time and I left Saturday around noon. Anyone see an O10,000 go??

[davmach1]

Great pics!

Does anyone know who the guy standing next to the "I love boobies!" rocket is? "Dave" something?

I ask because after waking us up at 2:30am my girlfriend and I nicely asked him to move away from our tent if he was going to yell and scream. He was clearly hammered and after we approached him proceeded to scream "FU** YOU" in her face at the top of his lungs and then tried to grab her in some sort of attempted hug. I had to intervene after he grabbed her arm and we left before things escalated. Now that I have a picture of him I'd really like to know the name of this class act.

Yes that would be me and let me start off by apologizing for offending your girlfriend. But I don't think you needed to come at me the way you did though. Heck dude if I was that drunk why would I be such a threat. Now I would like to apologize to you if offend you with the following statement. With that said let me say this.

Many of us live for the time we spend with our friends in the desert and yes we do get a bit rowdy at times. What I said was that we have a saying to those that get up in the middle of party central and ask people to be quite and that's F U go to bed. It was meant in good humor (maybe wasn't perceived that way but it was) the open arms was just my way of saying I was joking. Now if you can't accept that then to me that is your issue not mine. To me if you want to be all by yourself nice and quite maybe you should stay away from the playa at night and stay at Bruno's. I sometimes think people like yourself are mad because you aren't part of the party or maybe just don't have many friends.

Once again I do apologize and would like to shake your hand in friendship. then I'll buy you a beer next year at P on the P III.

Dave Leininger
TAP Member, Founding Father of UMERG

[Frederocket]

Yes that would be me and let me start off by apologizing for offending your girlfriend. But I don't think you needed to come at me the way you did though. Heck dude if I was that drunk why would I be such a threat. Now I would like to apologize to you if offend you with the following statement. With that said let me say this.

Many of us live for the time we spend with our friends in the desert and yes we do get a bit rowdy at times. What I said was that we have a saying to those that get up in the middle of party central and ask people to be quite and that's F U go to bed. It was meant in good humor (maybe wasn't perceived that way but it was) the open arms was just my way of saying I was joking. Now if you can't accept that then to me that is your issue not mine. To me if you want to be all by yourself nice and quite maybe you should stay away from the playa at night and stay at Bruno's. I sometimes think people like yourself are mad because you aren't part of the party or maybe just don't have many friends.

Once again I do apologize and would like to shake your hand in friendship. then I'll buy you a beer next year at P on the P III.

Dave Leininger
TAP Member, Founding Father of UMERG

Lame... It's like you're blaming him for your indiscretions...

[jsdemar]

I don't drink more than 2 beers per year, but think people have the right to drink as much as they want at the right place and time. Having been to BALLS before, I knew enough to choose a spot on the opposite end of the flight line from the P-on-the-P gang. Now Butalane knows that, too.

What I think is *really* annoying and most likely CRIMINAL is selling a high-powered laser and playing with it like a toy around 200+ people at night. I know 2 people who were hit in the eye just walking around at BALLS this year. They are going to have to visit their eye doctor to see if there's damage. Gary Rosenfield of Aerotech brushed it off as "stop whining" to one person and "I don't have anything to do with that product" to another person. I think that the BALLS staff, knowing this, should ban their use on the playa in the future.