Estes Shadow - any lightweight building tips?

I recently found an old Shadow kit on eBay. Wound up going for more than expected, but I got it . I'm planning to build it in a couple weeks. I've built a shadow 15 years ago, and helped my father on his Optima before that. Both fly well, but low and have fin damage issues. After seeing how poorly my epoxy built executioner flew, I'm concerned with weight.

I'm planning to use white glue, and wrap a Kevlar shock cord to the MMT. Other than that I'm pretty open to lightweight strengthening suggestions. Thanks!

I forgot, I'm also going to swap out the old E15 hook for an E9 sized one.
I plan to only fly on D12-3's. But I want to leave the option open for reloadables later on.
I'd swap out for plywood fins, but dont want to change too much

DizWolf said:

I forgot, I'm also going to swap out the old E15 hook for an E9 sized one.
I plan to only fly on D12-3's. But I want to leave the option open for reloadables later on.
I'd swap out for plywood fins, but dont want to change too much

Click to expand...

I flew my Shadow on a D12-3 many times and the results were often disappointing. The parachute often didn't open until the rocket was almost to the ground. I repaired broken fins quite often.

I'd recommend flying the Shadow on Aerotech composite motors such as the E15. The E15 is a single-use motor, the same size as a D12, which has enough ooomph to get the rocket off the pad at a safe speed and it burns long enough to get the Shadow to an altitude where there is time for the 'chute to deploy correctly.

-- Roger

If the Shadow is the model I'm thinking it's an revision of the Old BT-80 Optima.
if so I strongly suggest building the model as a 3 or 4 D12 cluster rather then the Single D12 or E9 powered model.

Even keeping the model as light as possible you'll only get a max of about 120 to 150feet out of a Single D12. Personally I wouldn't try flying it with E9's.

I crashed my original Optima by using a single D12-5 and angling the launch rod just a bit to compensate for wind. after replacing the foreward section and PNC-80K nosecone (Adding just a little more mass) the model fly OK on a D12-3 as seen in the 2nd launch pics (120-150ft).
I finially decided to add 3 BT-55 External pods to increase the thrust by 3- D12-0 boosters.. NOW that did the Trick. Flys wonderfully to about 600 feet on the 4 D12 motor combo. Truely lots of fun to fly clustered
Hope all that helps some.

DizWolf said:

I forgot, I'm also going to swap out the old E15 hook for an E9 sized one.
I plan to only fly on D12-3's. But I want to leave the option open for reloadables later on.
I'd swap out for plywood fins, but dont want to change too much

Click to expand...

You might consider leaving out the motor hook altogether.

When you prepare the rocket for flight, insert the motor leaving about 1/4" of the motor hanging out of the motor tube. Wrap a strip of masking tape around the bottom of the motor tube and the motor. The tape will hold the motor in place during the flight and keep it from ejecting. After the flight, just peel off the tape to remove the motor.

This technique allows you to use motors of any length without an adapter.

Some single-use and most reloadable composite motors have a thrust ring on the back of the motor which sits against the end of the motor tube and acts like a thrust ring. Wrapping masking tape around one of these motors to stop the motor from ejecting is a little more difficult, but possible. There are some other, perhaps more elegant, ways to retain those types of motors, but masking tape works.

If you do use an engine hook, cut or file off a little of the piece at the top that sticks into the motor tube. Otherwise, it'll hit the top of some Aerotech motor cases and make it difficult to use a reloadable motor.

-- Roger

Thanks for the quick tips guys. It is indeed a rev of the optima. Since I have a shadow, this will wind up in some optima style paint.

When I got back into this hobby, the first thing I did was fix the fins and paint my shadow. It got me thinking and I planned out several other ways to build the kit. Clustering, a booster, and a larger mount were all ideas. I think booster is out, the combined weight would be sketchy. I am definitely building a cluster this winter. My 29mm is nearly done.

I got this kit mostly for nostalgic purposes. A clone would have been cheaper. Because of that I think I'll stick to the single stuffer tube, and use E15's. Now to decide if I want to aeropack it, or file the hook

This kit is in amazing shape for it's age. The box had been opened, but the kit wasnt started, and the box hasn't even begun to yellow. All parts are inside, correct, and the tubes are in great shape. Estes should consider shipping in these again. This kit's about 14 years old, and in better shape than the last 3 I've ordered recently.



Next to it's siblings.


Just ordered an aeropack for it, and a couple E15's. 2.6 sec is a nice long burn...should be interesting. Ever try the E20's?

Micro- great photos of the Optima.... Now I really wanna cluster one up

If you leave enough room with the aft centering ring you could slap a booster on it. I built an Executioner (still unpainted) for my boy that flies awesome D12-0/D12-5. In fact, it has never flown single stage.

I read somewhere that 4 siblings won't get along, and 3 is much better. I can't provide a source though.

To save yourself the trouble and mental anguish of having 4, I would be willing to adopt one.

I was the first of four. You're absolutely correct. I'm going to need to build a fifth. Being that it'll be the 'fifth' I can think of some great Jack Daniels paint schemes. (of course the fifth built, would technically be my third plan drawn up. So the official name would be 'Optima 3', but the fifth built. So confusing. and this one wasnt even planned originally, making it 'Optima 6 (Shadow 2)' but the fourth built....)

I've seen some of the shots of your Boosted Executioner. Looks awesome! I may play around with the idea. It's a long winter in Buffalo.

Not typical but works really well.

What fun is typical? I really like the looks of that booster.