LOC Fantom Build Thread

[MasonH]

I got the video camera to hook up to the computer, and I made a quick video of what went on while I was at CATO this last weekend. Granted this is my first video I have ever made, so keep the comments minimum please...unless they are good ones, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5gr1...&feature=g-upl

[MasonH]

[MasonH]

It...is...finished!!! And just in time for the launch tomorrow! Grouch, are you happy now?

[chadrog]

G125? Shame on you...

[MasonH]

G125? Shame on you...

...wait what?

[grouch]

grouch, are you happy now?

I am grouch, I am never happy.

[Nerull]

...wait what?

The G125 technically requires high power certification to fly, as it has an average thrust of over 80N.

[CarVac]

It also has too much propellant mass.

[Nerull]

It also has too much propellant mass.

The limit was raised to 125g in NFPA 1125 last year, so that is no longer true. The G125 has 81g of propellant

[MasonH]

Oh, my bad guys. Good thing I am going for a cert this summer!

[gdjsky01]

The G125 technically requires high power certification to fly, as it has an average thrust of over 80N.

Well technically, if flying with a club, shame on the RSO as well. ... Just sayin'

[MasonH]

Well technically, if flying with a club, shame on the RSO as well. ... Just sayin'

Soo...just blame Al. Thats waht I always do.

[neond7]

Saw the thread, thought it was appropriate as I started on my Fantom 438 EXL this evening. So far I have only dry fit the parts and planned out the build. I had to widen and lengthen the fin slots a bit as they were too tight and short for the fins to slide in.

I'm going to modify the build instructions a bit. I've built a few Binder Design rockets lately, and I've become a big fan of the build technique used on those kits. It consists of using a bit of epoxy on the root of the fin tab to tack in the fins, cutting out the body tube tabs in back of the fins, and sliding the motor mount assembly out of the back of the body tube. This allows you to epoxy everything perfectly before sliding the assembly back into the body tube with a good fillet of epoxy on the front and rear centering rings followed by the fin fillets. When tacking on the fins, you have to be very careful not to get any epoxy on anything else or you will have a hard time getting the motor tube/centering rings/fins to slide out the back!

The stock kit only provides two centering rings. As you can see from the second picture, I'm going to slide the second centering ring down to the top of the fin tabs so the fin is completely bonded to the front and rear centering rings. Fear not, I have an extra centering ring on order, should be in Wednesday for the top of the tube. That is a really long motor tube for just two centering rings. I"ll also add a small U-bolt to the top centering ring. The stock kit uses a cheap loop epoxied to the inside of the body tube. This may work, but NO THANKS!! Not in my rocket. Yes, I overbuild, but my motto is, "you can always use a bigger motor!!!".

And, as always, an AeroPack Motor retainer will grace the rear of the motor tube for stylish and effortless motor retention. I swear, I'm single handedly putting the owner of that company's grandchildren through college....

Good luck and happy flying!

[MasonH]

I added a third ring on mine, but did not use the method for internal fillets you are. I just left off the rear ring since there are already two on there, and used a small brush to do the rest. The motor tube is small enough for me to get decent fillets on the ring, tube, and airframe. I also used an Aeropac retainer. The fins fit perfectly into my body tube, however.

Since I got the very last Fantom LOC sold, I tried to build and fly it in a manner that makes people proud. And so far, I think I am succeeding.

[neond7]

I added a third ring on mine, but did not use the method for internal fillets you are. I just left off the rear ring since there are already two on there, and used a small brush to do the rest. The motor tube is small enough for me to get decent fillets on the ring, tube, and airframe. I also used an Aeropac retainer. The fins fit perfectly into my body tube, however.

Since I got the very last Fantom LOC sold, I tried to build and fly it in a manner that makes people proud. And so far, I think I am succeeding.

Mason,
Either method will work. I'll be building a Mad Cow Frenzy kit after I finish the Fantom. It has two sets of fins, so I won't be able to use this build method on that kit so I'll just leave off the rear centering ring like you did and get a long stick, glue a spoon to the end, and do the internal fillets as best I can. I'll post some pics of my Fantom after I pull the motor tube out with the fins tacked on it..... I'll get some before and after so you can see how well it works. Either way should be strong enough, though. Its all a personal preference.

Regarding you buying the last LOC Fantom kit - I see it for sale from several vendors (in stock) and I bought this one two weeks ago. So maybe they put it back in production???

[MasonH]

Mason,


Regarding you buying the last LOC Fantom kit - I see it for sale from several vendors (in stock) and I bought this one two weeks ago. So maybe they put it back in production???

Do they carry the Fantom or the Fantom EXL version?

[neond7]

Do they carry the Fantom or the Fantom EXL version?

Mason,
I've seen both kits still offered from several vendors. Maybe they started production back up?? Its a nice kit, I can't see them discontinuing it.

My extra centering ring arrived yesterday from Apogeerockets.com (LOVE THEIR FAST SHIPPING) so I can start building! If time permits tonight I'll be tacking the fins to the motor tube - if I get all 4 attached (using 5 min epoxy mixed with West High Density filler - gotta work fast!!), then I'll pull the completed assembly out and post some pictures if your are interested.

On this build I'll try and restrain myself and go light on the internal fillets, I do tend to get carried away with the epoxy.... When I use the West System, I have the pumps installed so its one squirt each of the epoxy and hardener (and a generous spoonful of filler) and sometimes that is just too much for the job at hand and I use it anyway. I'm sure there is a support group out there somewhere I can get help with on my problem, though. "Hi, I'm Jeff". "Hello Jeff". "I'm here because I'm addicted to Epoxy". "Thats ok Jeff, nobody will judge you here"......

For the paint scheme, I'm going to paint the booster all white, the LOC picture has the fins black, but I think it will look nice all white since the fins have the bright green vinyl decals that go on them. It will tie in nicely with the lime green nose cone and lime green band around the av-bay. Plus, I won't have all the headache of masking off 4 fins. ;-)

[new2hpr]

It's just SO easy to go nuts with epoxy on this bird. Mine ended up so tail-heavy that I'm tempted to just stick it up on the wall and build a new one with wood glue for all but the fillets. I could probably drop at least a pound off it. All it has done is cause landing damage for me. Keep it minimal and you'll be much happier with the performance (and ease of repair).
-Ken

[T-Rex]

Do they carry the Fantom or the Fantom EXL version?

My guess would be that there are vendors out there who have the Fantom in stock and are still selling them. You bought the last one LOC had in stock, but, not the last one in existance....

[MasonH]

My guess would be that there are vendors out there who have the Fantom in stock and are still selling them. You bought the last one LOC had in stock, but, not the last one in existance....

Eh, close enough.

[Tarasdad]

I've been looking at this one as a possible L1 cert bird. If I do get it (or the EXL version) it will definitely get a third CR, U-bolt and Aeropack retainer.

[neond7]

I've been looking at this one as a possible L1 cert bird. If I do get it (or the EXL version) it will definitely get a third CR, U-bolt and Aeropack retainer.

I recommend you get the EXL - that way, you have both rockets. Just pull off the av-bay and payload section and move the main parachute and nose cone to the booster for some motor ejection fun. Its a win-win! You could actually do L1 and L2 with this rocket.

The supplied av-bay is very nice, a tad shorter than I'm used to, but very well built.

[Tarasdad]

I recommend you get the EXL - that way, you have both rockets. Just pull off the av-bay and payload section and move the main parachute and nose cone to the booster for some motor ejection fun. Its a win-win! You could actually do L1 and L2 with this rocket.

The supplied av-bay is very nice, a tad shorter than I'm used to, but very well built.

That's actually what I was thinking. It's really more than I'd want to spend but the flexibility is what makes it attractive. The only problem I see is it wouldn't get much use - there are definite drawbacks to being on SSDI, and having much in the way of disposable income is the biggest.

[neond7]

Mason,
I made some great progress tonight on my Fantom, as promised, here are my build pics:

Pic 1: I have tacked all 3 fins to the motor tube using a VERY thin bead of 5 min DevCon epoxy (mixed with West High Density Filler to lessen any running). I was careful and didn't get any on the sides of the fins or body tube.

Pic 2: Here I am cutting out the body tube tabs in back of the fins.

Pic 3: I have just pulled out the motor tube and fin assembly. Note that none of the centering rings are epoxied at this point.

Pic 4: I lowered the middle centering ring to mate with the top of the fin tabs.

Pic 5: Standing back and admiring - looks like a Klingon starship at this point! I will attach a u-bolt to the top centering ring prior to mounting it back in the body tube.

[neond7]

Here is the remaining progress I made on the build:

Pic 1: I used some Gatorade bottles to make a stand so I can work on it.

Pic 2: Another view..... still say it looks Klingon.

Pic 3: Here I have mixed up 1 squirt each of West Epoxy/Hardener. I also cut a thin dowel rod and placed it against against both fin roots (with epoxy under it).

Pic 4: I know I said I would go light on the epoxy with this build, but its SO HARD not to bulletproof it......

I'll apply epoxy to another side tomorrow when I get home from work, wait a few hours, and then apply to the final side. The following day I'll JB Weld the Aeropack motor retainer to the motor tube - currently its just dry fit on the end to ensure proper spacing with the end of the motor tube. Later that evening I can epoxy the whole thing back into the body tube.

More pics to come soon!

[dixontj93060]

Wow! A sea of epoxy!

[Nerull]

Wow! A sea of epoxy!

And I thought I put a lot of epoxy on my Fantom MMT.

[neond7]

And I thought I put a lot of epoxy on my Fantom MMT.

Oh come on, it wasn't THAT much.... There are light weight dowel rods lurking under there!!!

[o1d_dude]

Actually, yes, that is a lot of epoxy.

Some kit manufacturers recommend against internal and external fin fillets as they can make fin repairs/replacements very difficult. Others recommend them.

Personally I like the appearance of external fin fillets but my internals are pretty messy.

[MasonH]

As far as the epoxy goes, that is a lot in my opinion. I used very little amounts of it, maybe 1/4 of what you used in total. I also didnt use rods, as the motor mount was already installed in the tube when the fins went in. I estimate i didnt use more than an ounce of total epoxy in the whole fincan.