You have always been here
Guys,
Just bought a bunch of Aerotech D10 / D21 / E15 SU motors from ValueRockets.
Never launched anything other than Estes and Quest A-D engines before.
Any tips for getting the best from these?
I've got the usual suspects rockets to use them in... Everything from BT20 min diameter to BT60 birds like my Vagabond.
Anything special needed to get the ignitors to pop?
Marc
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Mid Power Wannabe
The only difference I noticed is that you need a 12 volt ignition system. That and the rockets seem to go a whole lot higher than they did before!
My wife let out an explicative the first time we launched an E15 - they are a bit louder than most BP motors.
Have fun!
Special I-95 Envoy
Just read and follow the directions. If you have Copperhead igniters, use the Aerotech device to clamp on to the ribbon to hook your clips up to or use masking tape to insulate one side of each microclip (not alligator clips). If you've got First Fire Jrs., even better.
After that, all you can do is hope for the best.
What?
If they come with the Q2 ignitors be VERY careful doing a continuity check with them. I think the D10's come with what appear to be Q2's. Sometimes continuity checks on some systems will set off the Q2 as they are pretty sensitive. If they are the copperheads then continuity checks are not an issue. As previously stated, you will need a 12v system. A used car battery is excellent for this. I've even seen people hook their launch controllers right up to the battery of the car they drove to the launch site in which is acceptable assuming you can get your car close enough.Originally Posted by Marc_G
Dave Brunsting | NAR 85879 | TRA 12369
L1 - 11/04/07, Three Oaks, MI | L2 - 7/25/09, Muskegon, MI
Prefect| Michiana Rocketry
ND SLP 2012 Mentor
You have always been here
My standard launch system is Q2G2-friendly, having been upgraded to an LED/resistor combo instead of the Estes bulb (and, heavy gauge wire, and a clip whip). It's still 6V so the Copperheads that I think come with the E15s probably will give me an incentive to put together the 12V launch system using the car jumpstart battery and assorted other parts I have had in a big pile since the beginning of spring.
Meanwhile, I wonder how my Goblin would like those E15s ?Probably would never see it again... but a D21 would be a nice ride.
Marc
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
What?
I have a Goblin clone and it loves the D10's. I imagine a D21 would be an excellent ride as well.My standard launch system is Q2G2-friendly, having been upgraded to an LED/resistor combo instead of the Estes bulb (and, heavy gauge wire, and a clip whip). It's still 6V so the Copperheads that I think come with the E15s probably will give me an incentive to put together the 12V launch system using the car jumpstart battery and assorted other parts I have had in a big pile since the beginning of spring.
Meanwhile, I wonder how my Goblin would like those E15s ?
Marc
-Dave
Dave Brunsting | NAR 85879 | TRA 12369
L1 - 11/04/07, Three Oaks, MI | L2 - 7/25/09, Muskegon, MI
Prefect
ND SLP 2012 Mentor
Flying since 1977
Keep in mind that small and lightweight BT-20 and BT-50 sized rockets (i.e. a Wizard or an Alpha) will "teleport" off the pad on a D21. Also, it might be a good idea to change out a parachute for a streamer when flying small models on big motors. Just my.
'Til next time,
Mike Toelle
NAR 31692 L1
SAM 0373
You have always been here
Yeah, a lot of my rockets have streamer recovery now. Particularly since my primary "landing zone" is now a prairie growth area... very soft landings.
I'm grateful for the field I have, but since it's just 500 feet radius, and the non-prairie part of it often has soccer kids etc..., I'm generally not one to overdo the engines for fear of losing my rocket to the trees on the periphery.
Meanwhile, I've just ordered some LED bulbs with built in resistors from that Pinballlife.com site. My only worry is: with a 12V system, will there be enough resistance in them to prevent Q2G2 pre-firing?
Time will tell!
MArc
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
What?
Yeah but making itty bitty rockets "teleport" is fun.Keep in mind that small and lightweight BT-20 and BT-50 sized rockets (i.e. a Wizard or an Alpha) will "teleport" off the pad on a D21. Also, it might be a good idea to change out a parachute for a streamer when flying small models on big motors. Just my
Dave Brunsting | NAR 85879 | TRA 12369
L1 - 11/04/07, Three Oaks, MI | L2 - 7/25/09, Muskegon, MI
Prefect
ND SLP 2012 Mentor
Banned
Do not use the Quest igniters provided. They do not get hot enough fast enough to light composites. It took me 7 tries to get an E15 off. The first 6 tries were with Quest igniters. The 7th was with a copperhead.
Member
My first experience with composite motors was yesterday. I bought a 2 pack of E20-4W for my QCC Explorer and Maxi Alpha 3. The QCC Explorer went up great, but stripped the trifold shock-cord mount. The airframe came down about 50 feet from the pads, but I had to walk about 500 yards to get the nose cone. The Maxi Alpha was good as well, after the third igniter. It came with a First Fire Jr. but I ended up using a Quickburst Twiggy instead. It was a great flight, but it really needed a 7 sec. delay. The Maxi Alpha was still going up when the ejextion blew, and I got a 1/2 inch zipper.
For your Vagabond, which is similar to my QCC Explorer, I recommend the E15. I wouldn't use the D motors on anything that Estes says needs a D.
I'm quickly believing that 24mm AT motors are meant for rokkits with 24mm mounts. 18mm Composite motors go with Estes 18mm rokkits, and so on. If you want to use an Aerotech D10 in a Hi-Flier, just be ready to lose it. Good Luck.
A good day of flying rockets is one where you get all the parts back.
OPII BIGGUS SHNOZOLUS
The only problem I've had with the composite SU motors is making sure the igniter stays all the way up there. Every instance the motor failed to fire for me was when the igniter dropped a bit. The igniter did it's thing, but it wasn't in the right place for the motor to do it's thing.
I have started using masking tape to hold the igniter in place, and then, when I can, rest the aft end of the motor on the clothes pin (used as a standoff) which also helps hold the igniter in place. I also started wrapping the launch control wire around the pad some so there's less of it hanging loose (less weight pulling on the igniter). I've had much better luck since doing those things.
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I think the E20-4 is way too short of a delay for the QCC, I have one and on a C11-3 it is still going up...All the estes kits NEED the long delays.
I don't always fly rockets,... But when I do, I get them back. (The most interesting man in the world TV commercial voice)
Fleet...35
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scratch-build...29
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Engine tips
Make sure use a car battery or two lantern batteris for the igniter electrical source and make sure you have the right launch controller. Go on apogees website and look for the vid on motor selection and the igniter stuff. That should help.
"Your mad!" "If I wasnt this would probably never work!"
BAR
I've had similar problems using Quest igniters, but not the Quest-like igniters (First Fire Jr. 3") included with these - they have more pyrogen than the ones we get directly from Quest (at least the ones I have). The big problem was that they're simply too short. Hmm, the 3" First Fire Jr igniters don't appear to be available currently from aerotech or value rockets. I wonder if they're moving away from these?
Paul
NAR #87246 L1 - Section #558 - www.wooshrocketry.org
"If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane" - Jimmy Buffett
Lv 1
mayhap AT got enough grumbles from folks trying to hook the clips on w/o pulling the blessed shorties out of place.
rex
Many rockets, no time.
Oh yeah, until you try to find the bloody things. Call Ensign O'Brian on the Enterprise. Maybe he can find it.Yeah but making itty bitty rockets "teleport" is fun.
Plays with wood, cardboard, and carpenters glue at home.
L1 will have to wait until 2013. Oh well.......patience is a lost virtue any-ways...
What?
Ahhh...that's not a problem. If you have a "soft" field use a streamer made of 2" surveyors flagging and it stands out against most any background. For a little more than $5 you have a lifetime supply of very visible streamer material. You can get it at most any home improvement stores. Typically near the tool section.Oh yeah, until you try to find the bloody things. Call Ensign O'Brian on the Enterprise. Maybe he can find it.
-Dave
Dave Brunsting | NAR 85879 | TRA 12369
L1 - 11/04/07, Three Oaks, MI | L2 - 7/25/09, Muskegon, MI
Prefect
ND SLP 2012 Mentor
You have always been here
I'm feeling a little foolish, in that I didn't realize the copperheads need a special clip... should have ordered one while I was at it.
Oh well. If I understand correctly I can use my flat microclips as long as I am careful about insulating one side of each, right?
Marc
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
What?
That is correct. OR, of you have a lighter - and are careful - you can burn the one end of the copperhead just enough so the 2 halves of the copper sheets separate.
Dave Brunsting | NAR 85879 | TRA 12369
L1 - 11/04/07, Three Oaks, MI | L2 - 7/25/09, Muskegon, MI
Prefect
ND SLP 2012 Mentor
You have always been here
We don't even want to go there! I'm a bit of a clutz so getting a lighter anywhere near an ignitor is out of the question. I'll go the insulation route, and get the clip with my next order (probably next year, as flying season is ending here...)
"If at first you don't succeed, Scream and Leap!"
NAR member 92906
Rustic rocketeer
Yup. Works like a charm. Just be sure to put the two insulated jaws on opposite sides of the lead. It's an easy error to make when you are hooking them up, even when you are fully aware of it. Well, OK, it's an easy error for me to make.
Mark S. Kulka NAR 86134 L1, ASTRE 471, Adirondack Mtns., NYOpinions Unfettered by Logic • Advice Unsullied by Erudition • Rocketry Without Pity
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