Soren's Rocket Vid @ Freedom Launch

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Gary Byrum

Overstable By Design
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Folks, I'm still beating myself over the head with this one and I'd appreciate some opinions. Soren's Rocket got it's maiden launch this past weekend and arched off the pad to almost to a ballistic end. It weighs 9.5 oz, everyone thought it was balanced well, as I did also. I used a D12-3 to power it which should have been somewhat adequate, but yet, it seemed under powered at take-off. Watch the video and at 2:22 minutes into it is where it starts. All opinions are welcomed. https://s343.photobucket.com/albums... 2011/?action=view&current=Orangeburg2011.mp4
 
It looks underpowered to me. The D12 takes a quarter second to hit it's peak thrust and I suspect it had left the launch rod way before then. Did you sim it prior to launch? What velocity did it calculate when it leaves the launch rod?
 
Gary,

For a rocket of that weight, the D12 is near the end of its limit for 5/1 thrust. Plus, this motor could have been on the lower end of the performance bell curve. Another factor is the wind, which you could see the effects on the barrier tape, which is not your friend on marginal flights. It looked like the rocket wasn't up to the required velocity at the end of the rod. Plus, the fins are somewhat small (but great for a high-speed design) which do not help much at lower velocities. I have launched heavier rockets on D12s, but the fins have a much larger surface area. Another consideration, was there much lug drag when you placed it on the rod?

When you say "balanced well", do you mean the relationship of the CG to CP? I was wondering what your CP calcs were and how close it was to the CG at launch.

Just "eyeballing it", you should be able to launch it on a D12, but I think you need at least a 6' rod. Regardless of what my eyeball thinks, you would be better off running sims to confirm that.

Finally, you could leave the D12 behind and launch it on an AeroTech RMS E18 or an AeroTech SU E20. Then you won't have to worry about rod length and light winds.

In summary, it looks like it flies fine, it just needs a bigger motor for extra "punch" off the pad or extra rod for D12s.

BTW, I'm glad it didn't hit the sun! ;)

Greg
 
Gary,

For a rocket of that weight, the D12 is near the end of its limit for 5/1 thrust. Plus, this motor could have been on the lower end of the performance bell curve. Another factor is the wind, which you could see the effects on the barrier tape, which is not your friend on marginal flights. It looked like the rocket wasn't up to the required velocity at the end of the rod. Plus, the fins are somewhat small (but great for a high-speed design) which do not help much at lower velocities. I have launched heavier rockets on D12s, but the fins have a much larger surface area. Another consideration, was there much lug drag when you placed it on the rod?

When you say "balanced well", do you mean the relationship of the CG to CP? I was wondering what your CP calcs were and how close it was to the CG at launch.

Just "eyeballing it", you should be able to launch it on a D12, but I think you need at least a 6' rod. Regardless of what my eyeball thinks, you would be better off running sims to confirm that.

Finally, you could leave the D12 behind and launch it on an AeroTech RMS E18 or an AeroTech SU E20. Then you won't have to worry about rod length and light winds.

In summary, it looks like it flies fine, it just needs a bigger motor for extra "punch" off the pad or extra rod for D12s.

BTW, I'm glad it didn't hit the sun! ;)

Greg

Both Lawrence and I concur with your notes here Greg. The CP is 1 caliber (body diameter) behind the CG. At first I thought it might be a little nose heavy but CG was fine. Wish there had been a longer rod at the site. It might have done ok. Punchier motor does sound like the ticket though. Thank you for your analysis. OH...I don't think I'm interested in any NEXUS ribbons presently. :wink: And I sure would like to know who was speed filming when it went off. I'd like to get a few pics of the liftoff.
 
I'm thinking about simming up Soren's rocket. Problem here is a lack of info... and Photobucket won't open the video. Can you upload it again? Say youtube or flickr?

Here I go again... Necromancing your posts Gary.
 
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I'm thinking about simming up Soren's rocket. Problem here is a lack of info... and Photobucket won't open the video. Can you upload it again? Say youtube or flickr?

Here it is on Youtube. [video=youtube;Lvsh3HD0dfc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvsh3HD0dfc[/video] I really don't know why you'd bother with it K...It doesn't fly well at all. Maiden was on a D 12 but that was being cautious. Everybody said it need more power and that's what it got on the 2nd flight. Some E motor, can't remember now, but it did the same thing. 1/2 way through the burn, it goes horizontal. I shelved it. There's nothing about this rocket that says it won't fly right. But it flies like crap.

DSCF2771.JPG
 
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