single stage/upper stage?

alright so i bought 2 packs of motors today, i have ran b6-4 in my rockets before, i saw the b6-6 and figured theyd go a bit higher so i got those.

i got home and realized the b6-6 is upper stage.

i am wondering what that means? as all ive previously launched is single stage.


estes rockets/ engines

B6 indicates power of the engine more or less. the Dash # is ejection charge delay in seconds. If your rocket reaches the ground within 6 seconds of the end of the thrust, the chute will deploy after the crash.
Long delay indicates higher altitude and faster velocity. You don't want the rocket to have too fast of velocity when the chute deploys or the recovery system could fail under the stress.
Hope this helps.

What rocket are you flying them in ? Upper stage motors have longer delay times to allow the rocket to coast more before ejection. If it is a lightweight, small diameter rocket it might fly higher with the longer delay, if it is a heavy rocket it will be coming back down at ejection and may be damaged by deploying at high speeds - or it may even impact before ejection

i am launching rascal and hi-jinks estes

they are quite small about a foot tall each.

if this means they will go faster then im glad i bought those upper stage motors... at least to see how it works. if my rockets get destroyed i will be dissapointed..

I had the same question a month ago. There is nothing different about the motor construction, they just "designate" it as upper stage because of the longer delay time.

Try to see if your rockets are still going up or coming down when the ejection charge occurs with a B6-4. If they are still going up you're probably ok. If they're coming down already when a B6-4 ejection charge goes, then B6-6 probably isn't a good idea for that rocket.

Schnauzer said:

i am launching rascal and hi-jinks estes

they are quite small about a foot tall each.

if this means they will go faster then im glad i bought those upper stage motors... at least to see how it works. if my rockets get destroyed i will be dissapointed..

Click to expand...

The Estes catalog recommends the B6-4 for these models.https://www.estesrockets.com/media//catalogs/Estes_2011_Catalog.pdf . As pick1e said if they are still going up on a B6-4 you will be OK with the 6 - If they are coming down with a 4 they will continue down for 2 more seconds on a 6 - not a good idea.

I looked them up, both about 1.5oz each. They should be ok, not enough mass to build sufficient velocity to a tearable amount of damage.
I've used the stock rubber band type shock cord years ago in my first few rockets. It only takes 3 to 4 flights before they decayed from ejection charge heat and broke. Ever since I've use elastic, purchased anywhere sewing supplies are sold. The wolvine materieal helps shield from the ejection charge and gets considerable more flights out of them. In fact, I have a few rockets from the late 70's thats had 40 or so flights, and the original shock cord of elastic is perfectly fine.
This will be the weak link where the sudden impact of a chutes stopping power vs the velocity of the rocket, in either upward or downward direction.
You should be safe, just stretch the shock cord out and closely examine it for brittleness and chaffing. Once this occurs, replace it regardless no matter what engine is used.

is shock chord sold at hobby shops?

Closest HL to me is like 70 miles away, only been to one once while on the road for work, was disapointed greatly as a hobby shop.
I get all the elastic I need from local wal-mart or meijers in the crafts or sewing section.
Theres a JC Penny that is more expensive, but it's the same stuff.
I use 1/8" on anything BT-20 or smaller, using mini engines to A8-3.
BT-50 and Above and larger than A8-3 I use 1/4".
If you go big like a BT-80 I use 3/8" or use longer lengths of 1/4".
Take in account, I only have experience in low power rockets and estes engines.
Some of guys here are way beyond me, but what you have is low power. I like to help when I can.
Great bunch of guys here, if I'm wrong, they will let you know.

Shock cords are not sold in hobby shops unless it has a very large rocketry selection. You can find what you need at a sewing store; just look for sewing elastic. You can buy it by the yard from a spool or just pick up a package of a few yards.

Zeus-cat said:

Shock cords are not sold in hobby shops unless it has a very large rocketry selection. You can find what you need at a sewing store; just look for sewing elastic. You can buy it by the yard from a spool or just pick up a package of a few yards.

Click to expand...

To elaborate: you want to buy the 1/8" elastic for most low power hobby rockets (D and smaller). If you plan to build anything larger (D or E), use 1/4" elastic. Anything bigger than E should probably use woven nylon or Kevlar. Also, use plenty - my rule of thumb is to use about one and a half times the length of the rocket. Most Estes rockets came with too short shock cords - the result would often be the notorious "Estes Dent" where the nose cone snapped back and dinged the front of the body tube. Longer shock cords solved that problem.

i got that dent in my nose today. ill have to grab some elastics for that.

Did you try the B6-6?

i launched all 3 of the b6-6 they went quite high, i dont have the acual estimated height, but they also opened in plenty of time too. it worked out nice. they didnt seem to fall very much before opening.

when i went to the c6-5 thats when it got hard to aim the launch rod.

1/8" flat elastic is crap. It hardly lasts any longer than the rubber bands that Estes uses in their kits. If you need something thinner in width than 1/4", get oval elastic. It is far more durable than 1/8" elastic. You can get elastic in the sewing section of Walmart. I get mine either there or at Joanne's Fabrics.

To avoid nose cone snap-back, use a longer shock cord. A good rule of thumb is to install one that is 3x the length of the rocket.

There is different types of elastic. You have to look close at the item. 1/8" is commonly used in infant ware, where is has little resistance. You however can get the stronger stuff.
Just be sure to read the package before purchase.

estes educator website https://www2.estesrockets.com/cgi-bin/WEDU100P.pgm

Estes educational publications https://www2.estesrockets.com/cgi-bin/WEDU100P.pgm

What do the labels on motors mean? https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/Estes_Time-Thrust_Curves.pdf

https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/Estes_Model_Rocket_Engines.pdf

Bob

Agree with Mark Oval or even round 1/8" elastic is a much better choice then flat.
It's also a good idea to use it in combination with either kevlar line as the anchor point or a stainless leader or wire anchor with kevlar/elastic shock line added.

thanks for the info... i plan to find a nearby sewing shop or go to walmart to grab the mentioned 1/4" (round or oval if i can find it) elastic for the rockets i have now, since they are small. if i make a bigger rocket ill read back here and get the more powerful stuff.

im somewhat confused at how to use that kevlar acually i will eventually study those pics some more. i would be interested in doing that though.

one thing im wondering is, i have the estes rascal and hi-jinks rockets. so they came pre-built. i am wondering once i buy this new elastic, how exactly do i get inside the rocket and attach it? lol ive deff gotta learn that kevlar thing though. i like to do things the right way as best i can. is that kevlar from a fishing shop?

Schnauzer said:

one thing im wondering is, i have the estes rascal and hi-jinks rockets. so they came pre-built. i am wondering once i buy this new elastic, how exactly do i get inside the rocket and attach it? lol ive deff gotta learn that kevlar thing though. i like to do things the right way as best i can. is that kevlar from a fishing shop?

Click to expand...

If they're like the RTF models I've seen with the plastic launch lug, the rubber cord is attached to the launch lug before they glue it into the body. If that's the case it's going to be more trouble than it's worth to get in there. I would just tie an extension to the existing cord with a square knot.

so are you saying rtf models are basically good until their shock chord breaks and then theres really not much you can do?

so i would guess that if you build your own rocket from a kit then you could make it in a way that you can always replace the shock chord?



i think i just got a better understanding of the kevlar... let me know if im right about this.... if you put the rocket together yourself. you can tie the kevlar so that goes into the rocket and that its long enough to stick out the nose. then you tie the elastic to the kevlar, that way you can replace the shock chord whenever needed and the kevlar will last forever?

gpoehlein said:

the result would often be the notorious "Estes Dent" where the nose cone snapped back and dinged the front of the body tube. Longer shock cords solved that problem.

Click to expand...

Yep, we saw that first-hand on my Vagabond last weekend /sigh

Schnauzer said:

so are you saying rtf models are basically good until their shock chord breaks and then theres really not much you can do?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. You could cut as much as possible out of an old-broken RTF shock cord, and then attach some elastic per the standard Estes folded paper mount to the inside of the BT.

Hi Schnauzer, welcome to the forum. I'm also relatively new to this hobby, so I usually let other more experienced modelers reply to questions, but this thread has been fun to read and I think I might be able to help you with this.

Schnauzer said:

so are you saying rtf models are basically good until their shock chord breaks and then theres really not much you can do?

The real beauty of our hobby is that it rewards creative thinking. There is always something you can do. Make a new anchor point inside the body tube, my preference is epoxy putty.

so i would guess that if you build your own rocket from a kit then you could make it in a way that you can always replace the shock chord?

Every model I have built has been improved with ideas that came from previous failures, kevlar chord is used in all my rockets, I quit using rubber bands and elastic because they failed.


i think i just got a better understanding of the kevlar... let me know if im right about this.... if you put the rocket together yourself. you can tie the kevlar so that goes into the rocket and that its long enough to stick out the nose. then you tie the elastic to the kevlar, that way you can replace the shock chord whenever needed and the kevlar will last forever?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about "forever" but it's definitely more durable than the Estes rubber bands. How long do you think your rascal and hijinks will last? My first rockets suffered from my ignorance, they got lost and damaged as I was learning what works and what doesn't. Just like you are doing now. The more you learn, the more you will want to learn about our hobby. I might take some flack from other members here, but most of us have moved on to bigger and better rockets than what you are flying now, hopefully you will to.

Schnauzer said:

so are you saying rtf models are basically good until their shock chord breaks and then theres really not much you can do?

so i would guess that if you build your own rocket from a kit then you could make it in a way that you can always replace the shock chord?



i think i just got a better understanding of the kevlar... let me know if im right about this.... if you put the rocket together yourself. you can tie the kevlar so that goes into the rocket and that its long enough to stick out the nose. then you tie the elastic to the kevlar, that way you can replace the shock chord whenever needed and the kevlar will last forever?

Click to expand...

You can always add a new shock cord to an rtf model. You would have to mount it using a centering ring or a tri-fold mount or some other method. You'll learn about those as you start to build kits.

Like you said, I usually tie the Kevlar to the motor mount and then run it up out of the rocket. Then I tie the elastic to it.

Sorry, even Kevlar can wear out, but it will last much longer than elastic.