What if NASA had built and flown this many Saturn V's ?

Quest is shipping the NEW Micro Roc sets. Pictured here is the assembly line for the 5623 "Space Pioneers" Dual set with both the Saturn V and Space Shuttle Micro Rocs.

Sets include 2 rockets, 6 motors and the new MMX G2 igniter.

Arriving at your favorite hobby dealers next week!
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awwww, how cute! its a school of saturns, I sure hope they don't get eaten by them mean old Delta's:no::y::roll:

WoW!!! I would estimate that there are CXX Saturn V's on that table.

I wonder if Quest had the Saturn-V instablilty problem fixed or if they still need a tad more fin area to become stable in flight?

I used tiny triangles of clear plastic from the packaging between the black body strip and existing fins with a bit of CA to fix the problem.
My many Quest LPB Saturn-V's are now stable, flying well on single MMX-II motors.
I'd hold on to the packaging until after a flight or two just in case

Micromeister said:

I wonder if Quest had the Saturn-V instablilty problem fixed or if they still need a tad more fin area to become stable in flight?

I used tiny triangles of clear plastic from the packaging between the black body strip and existing fins with a bit of CA to fix the problem.
My many Quest LPB Saturn-V's are now stable, flying well on single MMX-II motors.
I'd hold on to the packaging until after a flight or two just in case

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There were two versions of the plastic micro Saturn V and one had larger fins. I don't have my old comparison photos handy to compare to the photo of the current production run. The larger fin version was perfectly stable.

Of course, other factors come into play, such as plastic thickness for a production run affecting the c.g. - Until proven otherwise, I will assume these current production models are stable. I look forward to observing them launch at our club launches ASAP.

shreadvector said:

There were two versions of the plastic micro Saturn V and one had larger fins. I don't have my old comparison photos handy to compare to the photo of the current production run. The larger fin version was perfectly stable.

Of course, other factors come into play, such as plastic thickness for a production run affecting the c.g. - Until proven otherwise, I will assume these current production models are stable. I look forward to observing them launch at our club launches ASAP.

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Yeap shread:
I've heard the same thing about there being a larger fin version but every single one i've had (about 20 to date) from various sources and different Years have all been unstable out of the package. Some did have slightly larger fins but they still looped at about 10 feet. With the addition of the little extra clear fin tabs they get more the 30feet and pop the piston almost at apogee

I think that this photo shows the larger fin version.

https://www.asp-rocketry.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=675&Category=197

shreadvector said:

I think that this photo shows the larger fin version.

https://www.asp-rocketry.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=675&Category=197

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Humm!
Have to say that Saturn-V's fins look pretty much like all the fins on the various Saturns in my storage bags purchased at different times from different suppliers over the past 8 years....as recently as November 2010.
To date they have all needed a little extra fin area. Could it just be my extraordinary bad luck all along?

Has anyone had a good flight (20-30ft straight and stable) on a Stock out of the package Quest LPB Saturn-V?

Micromeister said:

Humm!
Have to say that Saturn-V's fins look pretty much like all the fins on the various Saturns in my storage bags purchased at different times from different suppliers over the past 8 years....as recently as November 2010.
To date they have all needed a little extra fin area. Could it just be my extraordinary bad luck all along?

Has anyone had a good flight (20-30ft straight and stable) on a Stock out of the package Quest LPB Saturn-V?

Click to expand...

Ok, then the larger fin version was much larger and I cannot find any photos of them on the web. IIRC, the fins were about twice the area of the ones shown. Someone must have one they can take a photo of. How about you ask the minions over on the YahooGroup if anyone can post a photo?

shreadvector said:

Ok, then the larger fin version was much larger and I cannot find any photos of them on the web. IIRC, the fins were about twice the area of the ones shown. Someone must have one they can take a photo of. How about you ask the minions over on the YahooGroup if anyone can post a photo?

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10-4:
I'll post the question over on the group as well.
So as you understand it, the fins should be about twice the size of those shown in the photo....did then extend above the aft nozzle fairings or span out much further or some combination?

I recently purchased 2 SSVS for the motors just dumped the LPB's and launcher in the Stock bags for later. I'll take another look at these models tonight also to see if they appear to be larger? Have to say they didn't strike me as any different then those i've received earlier.

Micromeister said:

10-4:
I'll post the question over on the group as well.
So as you understand it, the fins should be about twice the size of those shown in the photo....did then extend above the aft nozzle fairings or span out much further or some combination?

I recently purchased 2 SSVS for the motors just dumped the LPB's and launcher in the Stock bags for later. I'll take another look at these models tonight also to see if they appear to be larger? Have to say they didn't strike me as any different then those i've received earlier.

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Definitely extended up to the top or over the aft nozzle fairings. Not sure if there was increased span.

They were quite stable.

Stability can be fixed with adjustments to c.g. so the current version may work fine. Gotta fly them to confirm.

Well:
The question was put to the MicroMaxrocketsGroup and the best anyone came up with were the deminsions of a LPB Saturn-V one of the Group Members got at Naram-53 a couple weeks ago.
Reported to be 8mm long trailing edge, 10mm diagonal Leading edge, 4.5mm Fin tip and just a tiny bit over 8mm root diagonal edge at the engine bell shroud.

With These dimensions in hand I randomly selected 4 of my LPB Saturns Including the original 1999 Silo Set I usually fly at demos to check these dimensions against. As is my habbit, I date kits and models with the month & year of purchase. These four span the 12 years since Micro's introduction 1999 to a one of the SSVS sets purchase and recieved in January of this year.
ALL 4 have very close to identical dimensions, the only varience was in the outer tip of one 2003 model that was 4.0mm rather then 4.5mm.

This leads me to believe the elusive Large fin Saturn-V LPB may belong with Bigfoot and the Lockness Monster LOL!!!
If these dimensions hold true with all the LPB Saturn-V's, I suggest adding the tiny triangles of plastic (either from the packaging clear plastic or whatever very thing .010" or less what-have-you fastened with a bit of CA. to correct the stability problem, making the model stable in 10-15mph breezes.
Hope this helps.

Ps: I have a photo now of these four Saturn-V LPBs but it's still in the camera.
Pss: Pic attached

It is missing its retainer, but here are a couple of photos of my "large fin" Quest Saturn V. The fin shape resembles the fins on the Saturn I.

Yes it was quite stable in the two flights that I actually got to make with it. The retainer was lost during the second flight. Unfortunately, the retainer from my "small fin" Saturn V has a slightly different design and doesn't fit this one.

MarkII said:

It is missing its retainer, but here are a couple of photos of my "large fin" Quest Saturn V. The fin shape resembles the fins on the Saturn I.

Yes it was quite stable in the two flights that I actually got to make with it. The retainer was lost during the second flight. Unfortunately, the retainer from my "small fin" Saturn V has a slightly different design and doesn't fit this one.

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YEAH!!! finally
Thanks for the Photo Mark! Now at least we Know there are some of these elusive beasts out there somewhere LOL!!
Do you recall where and/or when you pickup our LF Saturn-V?

Micromeister said:

YEAH!!! finally
Thanks for the Photo Mark! Now at least we Know there are some of these elusive beasts out there somewhere LOL!!
Do you recall where and/or when you pickup our LF Saturn-V?

Click to expand...

This was either in my very first MMX launch set way back in 2004 or in a Saturn V/SR-71 rocket set that I bought from an online vendor (maybe ASP) a year or two later. I have one of each kind and I don't recall which one came from which set.

On another note, does anyone stock the Cruise Missile LPB anymore? I have one, but the tips of the two rudder fins (top and bottom) were bent in the package. I haven't flown it yet, even though I have had it for years. I'd like to get another one. I don't know -- even with their flaws, I still like the original Quest MicroMaxx RTFs. They are fun to take out back on a lark and launch. Many of them have amazing detail, too, for such little rockets. I am eternally grateful to Bill Stine and Quest for creating and continuing to produce the whole series of MicroMaxx products. They played a major role in enticing me to resume this hobby that I love so much.

Duplicate

MarkII said:

This was either in my very first MMX launch set way back in 2004 or in a Saturn V/SR-71 rocket set that I bought from an online vendor (maybe ASP) a year or two later. I have one of each kind and I don't recall which one came from which set.

On another note, does anyone stock the Cruise Missile LPB anymore? I have one, but the tips of the two rudder fins (top and bottom) were bent in the package. I haven't flown it yet, even though I have had it for years. I'd like to get another one. I don't know -- even with their flaws, I still like the original Quest MicroMaxx RTFs. They are fun to take out back on a lark and launch. Many of them have amazing detail, too, for such little rockets. I am eternally grateful to Bill Stine and Quest for creating and continuing to produce the whole series of MicroMaxx products. They played a major role in enticing me to resume this hobby that I love so much.

Click to expand...

2004 or 2006.....Thanks again Mark!
It seem so strange to me that in all this time and all the different vendors, years and sets I've pick-up here and there not one of them contained a large fin example....Man Talk about the luck of the draw.
When Fred mentioned in one of the early posts that he had seen and flown one I assumed it or they were likely something he picked up at a hobby show somewhere and perhaps not something actually sold..one of those Left coast things....my Bad, My apologies to him.
Now that we all can See the difference between the two Saturns, I'm still curious as to why the Saturns pictured in the thread authors first post are obviously small fin units. Are they STILL leftovers from the original LPB manufacturing run? I suppose we'll never know...but at least we can say for sure it is a good idea to add those little extra pieces of clear plastic package material to improve flight stability.

I have a slew of the LPB Cruise Missiles, Drop me your mailing address and I'll send you one. [email protected]
I'm still sitting on 10 or more so it's really not a problem at all.

"I suppose we'll never know...but at least we can say for sure it is a good idea to add those little extra pieces of clear plastic package material to improve flight stability."

1) Why would we never know? "We" could contact Quest and ask them.

2) Why tell everyone to add clear plastic to a product you have not flown or tested? Are you telling everyone that you know in advance that there have been no slight changes in these models to move the c.g. forward? Again, contacting Quest would be one way to answer that question.

All you or I can state for a fact if what we have seen in the past. We cannot comment or pontificate about a product we have not physically held ot flown yet.

If you do not wish to contact Quest, you can wait and buy one of the new 2011 Saturn V and then carefully measure the c.g. location and compare it to the previous small finned version c.g. location. Then do a few test flights. If you find identical c.g. and identical stability problems, THEN you can post advice urging folks to alter their models. Until then, it is not a good idea to proclaim a product that is not yet on the market as unstable without proof or facts.

shreadvector said:

"I suppose we'll never know...but at least we can say for sure it is a good idea to add those little extra pieces of clear plastic package material to improve flight stability."

1) Why would we never know? "We" could contact Quest and ask them.

2) Why tell everyone to add clear plastic to a product you have not flown or tested? Are you telling everyone that you know in advance that there have been no slight changes in these models to move the c.g. forward? Again, contacting Quest would be one way to answer that question.

All you or I can state for a fact if what we have seen in the past. We cannot comment or pontificate about a product we have not physically held ot flown yet.

If you do not wish to contact Quest, you can wait and buy one of the new 2011 Saturn V and then carefully measure the c.g. location and compare it to the previous small finned version c.g. location. Then do a few test flights. If you find identical c.g. and identical stability problems, THEN you can post advice urging folks to alter their models. Until then, it is not a good idea to proclaim a product that is not yet on the market as unstable without proof or facts.

Click to expand...

To be forewarned is to be forearmed! I see no apparent reason to expect these Saturn-V's to perform any differently then the 20 or so i've purchased and flown over the last dozen years. Without alteration they are expected to be unstable in anything but completely calm, windless days.

Doing the same thing with the same product expecting a different result is the very definition of Sillyness. My intent is purchase one of the new sets as soon as they are released, but that doesn't mean I have to stick my head in the sand until I actually get one in the air. Past history DOES mean something.

I would hope that calling attention to the POTENTIAL problem would help folks in advance of launching their new micros. If they know they may have less then satisfactory flight results and have a solution in-hand it might NOT cause them to avoid flying more micro models, even LPB's in the future. It is my intent to incourage more micro model flying.
The potential situation as been addressed, the Large Fin Saturn-V Exposed and documented so we can identify what type unit were looking at, now all that remains is to get the repackaged "new" sets in our hands.

Ps: I'm anything but anti Quest! I want Quest to sell every one of the LPB's they produced. Make their money back on these LPB's so they will continue to create more and different LPBs and perhaps some real Micro builder Kits as well. To that end I'll continue to try to help promote safe and stable additions or alterations to any micro model as nesessary.
Pss: One more thing...I wasn't going to mention it but YES I have ask the question of Quest... as of this morning haven't received an answer.... but then again I honestly didn't expect anything other then an acknowledgement.

Has anyone seen this in the wild yet? I went to my local hobby stores that carry Quest and when I asked if they were stocking these they looked at me like I had rode in on a tiny Saturn V.

I forgot to add the rest of my post! I too have a large fin Saturn V. It came in one of the later "tri pack" sets; with a Silo launch pad, 9 engines, a Saturn V, No Mercy 3FNC, and a SR-71. The Quest Model number on the box is 5616. It has the later "cloud" packaging. I have never flown it. Of the 40 or so I've had in my time flying MMX, this is the only one I have seen.

Mark II, I took a look at the motor retainer. it looks the the standard Saturn V; only cut down a bit. Mine example is very poorly cut down at that. I can try to get a pic for you; but I'm fairly sure if you have an extra long one around a replacement could me made.