made my first launch today

Hello. i made 6 launches today at a local community park with a pond. i didnt get any pictures because i wanted to concentrate on my first day lol. i got a rascal and hi-jinks launch kit. i used 3 A8-3 engines and 3 b4-4 engines. the first three went very smooth, they gave me the idea of where the wind was going.

i then got to the b4-4 and didnt bother to adjust the launch rod at all accordingly. the first launch suprised me at how high it was, next thing i know the parachute opens and it was so high up that as it drifted it managed to make its way far from where i wanted it to be. i was in quite a large field, there was one road speed limit 40 1 lane in each direction which i wasnt very close to at launch. for a little bit i thought the rocket was going to make it over the highway and into someones yard accross the street, where i thought i may not get it back if it was on someones roof lol. as it got lower i started to realize it wasnt going to reach the house, instead what happened was it landed in the road. when i saw it wasnt going to go to the house i started running to get it. by the time i got to it it was littleraly on the yellow lines in the middle of the road, cars were going by not even swerving to avoid it really and the drift would catch the parachute and move it. i thought it was going to be crushed, eventually when traffic wasnt around i ran out and grabbed it and it was completely unharmed. launched it again too.

ok so after realizing the wind was like that, i angled the launch rod more. and made the second 2 b4-4 shots which both landed in the field for me.

now i will talk about the things that happened, that i could use some advice about.... i read in the intructions to use 3-4 sheets of recovery wadding in these, i started with 3, noticed some burn marks in the parachute... i used 4.... with 4 sheets, one of my parachutes was literaly melted together by the time it hit ground, to the point it would rip a big hole if i try to separate it, and it is no good, i need a new parachute completely. i am wondering how people avoid this happening every time?

also after 5 launches, on my 6th launch my controller wouldnt work, so i went to the clips at the engine and realized they were so covered in black stuff, so i scraped them together to get it off a bit, then tried again and off it went. i am wondering more professional methods for cleaning that between launches?

i had a blast though, im not sure what to say, if those b4-4 engines were rocketing 450 feet, then i cant imagine what it will be like when i get the engines that take this 1200 feet. thats going to have to be a very accuaratly planned launch for it to land in the field. i suppose ill buy some b4-4 again to test the wind and then buy the next step up.

any methods for judging the wind besides just starting with a smaller engine to get an idea?

Ahhh estes engines, the gateway drug.

congrats on your first launch.

Congrats on your first launches!!

Busy roads are unfriendly to rockets, I'm glad you got it back and didn't have a close call yourself. I had a rocket land on a street just like that and several cars drove right over it, stradling rather than smashing. As they went by the chute filled up and dragged it down the pavement....but it survived.


I like to use fine sandpaper to keep the contacting surfaces of the clips clean. I take some with me every time I launch, and every few flights I clean the clips and never have a problem.

Judging wind is tough when you are in an area surrounded by trees, because the wind up high will almost surely be different from what you feel. I use small rockets and/or streamer equipped rockets and judge the wind by flying. If you have a tall building with a flag flying use that for a wind sock. The more you fly the better feel you will get for how you need to set up.

Well done on the launches, and successful recoveries. Here's to many, many more!!

Schnauzer said:

H
now i will talk about the things that happened, that i could use some advice about.... i read in the intructions to use 3-4 sheets of recovery wadding in these, i started with 3, noticed some burn marks in the parachute... i used 4.... with 4 sheets, one of my parachutes was literaly melted together by the time it hit ground, to the point it would rip a big hole if i try to separate it, and it is no good, i need a new parachute completely. i am wondering how people avoid this happening every time?

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In addition to the plug of wadding I often wrap 1 wadding sheet around the folded parachute for extra protection. The best this is Nomex parachute protectors that are sold by several vendors - it is tied to the shock cord and wraps around the folded chute for full protection

Congratulations on your launch!

Wind is always tricky - start small, and you will also get a feel for your field and how the wind acts.

With the wadding just make sure you are making a large enough wad. the wad should stuff into the tube and create basically a barrier between the gasses and the plastic above. this could be just me, but i found that the right size rather then multiple wads was the key. If they are too small the gasses get around the ball. My son launched his first rocket a couple of weeks ago - estes puma - and to get the waddding in i had to push it down with a pencil, granted it is a skinny rocket. 4 launches and all we had was a bit of soot on the streamer. Others may have better thoughts - but that was my experience.

P_G

Be sure to bend the igniter wires up and out of the way of the motor exhaust. This will help keep the clips clean. When I insert an igniter, I make sure the wires are spread apart so they don't short when I insert the plug. Then, I lay the wires over opposite the launch lug.

Congrats for a successful first outing. I would have to say you did better than I did today.

I launched 8 times today and had one flight that wasn't so good. I popped the nose off a BT-80 rocket that was going up on an E18-4. It was 50 feet in the air and the nose came off while still under power. The rocket chased its tail for a few seconds and then floated gently down to the ground as all the gyrations had pulled the chute out. About 2 seconds after it landed the ejection charge went off. No damage other than to my ego.

I have pretty much switched to nylon chutes and Nomex. I think nylon chutes just hold up better than the plastic ones and Nomex . By the way, you can make replacement plastic chutes out of garbage bags.

I use the blow test for getting an idea of how much wadding to use and how tight to pack it. Put the wadding in the rocket and then blow into the motor end. I usually leave the nose off and don't put the chute in for this test. If you can't blow any air into the rocket then you have packed the wadding too tight. The motor won't push the wadding or parachute out if you fly it this way. If you can blow air past the wadding then you have not sealed the tube properly and your chutes will get burned. If you can blow the wadding out with a quick puff you are right about where you want to be in terms of packing and number of sheets. Repeat the packing tests until you can repeat the results consistantly.

I typically use four squares of wadding in BT-50-based rockets such as your Rascal and HiJinks. Even so I sometimes get a little 'chute damage. I always try to NOT pack it tightly, and often will blow the first square, wadded loosely, down to the top of the motor mount. That seems to help get a seal with the first square and improve the chances for the others.

Welcome to the madness - and fun!

Oh - clips - Greg's idea is a great one. And keep a bit of sandpaper or an emery board in your field kit for cleaning clips 'cause they'll get dirty eventually anyway.

Sounds like the rocket gods were smiling on you with that rocket in the road unharmed!

The instructions show putting crumpled balls of wadding in the body tube, but the idea is to form a gasket, so leave them fairly loose. Check out the video of the Sky Hawker on the Estes website, it shows packing wadding in the same size rocket. I take the pieces and push them into the tube with my finger about as deep as my little finger, then stuff the rest of it in. Then follow with the other pieces.

For the parachute I wrap the shroud lines tightly around the chute with no length of shroud line to spare so that when the nose cone pops off, it pulls out the chute as quickly as possible.

I've been making replacement chutes out of Mylar wrapping paper with great success.

I crew with some people that fly hot air balloons. Before launch they release a helium balloon and watch it rise to see what the wind is doing at the launch site. But I think flying smaller rockets on smaller motors and streamer recovery is probably a better method for our hobby.

Just throwing out ideas.

One more note:

Angling the launch into the wind is very tricky because of a phenomenon called weathercocking. Basically, a typical rocket shape will tend to turn itself INTO the wind because the force of the wind on the fin area makes it angle the nose in the direction the wind is blowing from.

If we then angle the launch rod, into the wind, we risk exacerbating the effect and in extreme cases we get what we affectionately call a land shark, with the rocket traveling more or less horizontally. Not good.

Sounds like you have an instince for "just enough, not too much" so congratulations on your launches!

Marc

I grab a handful of green grass and stuff some in the tube before the wadding.Keeps the chute from burning and it's free!

Mylar balloons make great chute replacements. Just trace a chute on paper and keep for a template. That and a roll of kite string and you have all the replacement chutes you need. Plastic garbage bags also work well.

Sounds like you had a good day. Refer to your previous thread. I made some comments about using blown in insulation (fireproofed shedded newspaper) as well as cutting spill holes in your chutes to limit drift. Its a learning curve and you are asking all the right questions. Keep it up.

Were your rockets still going up when the ejection charge popped? Look up the definition of apogee. If so, you may want to try A8-5 and B6-6 instead of A8-3 and B4-4. It'll be less stress on your rocket.

thanks for all the advice. i will re read things until i can remember a good amount.

i acually didnt even think to see when the ejection happened exactly, honestly when i was launching yesterday i was watching and wondering is there an explosion that makes the chute pop out or is it just when it reaches maximum height, and hits weightlessness for a second and turns around to fall down i thought maybe the rocket head weighed more then the rest and may just fall out by itself. lol

but i can tell you, that i deffinitley noticed one time where the rocket launched and it fell down for awhile acually and i was getting worried that the head mightve been stuck, but then it opened and it was ok.

"Nose cone" not "rocket head".

How rocket motors work (including the ejection charge):

https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/Estes_Model_Rocket_Engines.pdf

See page 2 of this one for the pretty pictures. No need to deal with the equations at all:
https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/TN-2_Report.pdf

And be sure to check out these nice posters and documents:
https://www.questaerospace.com//rcentral-edresources.asp

Please ignore the Quest 2 stage flight diagram as it is very, VERY wrong. There is no ejection charge or clay cap in a booster motor. Estes reports have this detailed correctly. Look at "The Classic Collection" for the multi-stage and boost glider reports when you are ready.

https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/2845_Classic_Collection_TR-TN.pdf

Schnauzer said:

thanks for all the advice. i will re read things until i can remember a good amount.

i acually didnt even think to see when the ejection happened exactly, honestly when i was launching yesterday i was watching and wondering is there an explosion that makes the chute pop out or is it just when it reaches maximum height, and hits weightlessness for a second and turns around to fall down i thought maybe the rocket head weighed more then the rest and may just fall out by itself. lol

but i can tell you, that i deffinitley noticed one time where the rocket launched and it fell down for awhile acually and i was getting worried that the head mightve been stuck, but then it opened and it was ok.

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By the way, I e-mailed Quest immediately after I posted the message above. Within minutes I had a reply that they were going to review the website and content in the next few months for revisions and corrections and she (Nettie) thanked me for pointing out the error so that it could be addressed at that time.

nice, alot of information to take in.

I hope i can do a thread like you in approximately 2 months

Ricci ill be watching for your thread :cyclops:

i am looking forward to grabbing some engines for this weekend if weather and everything comes together. also taking my new knowledge due to this thread with me to the field.

i was looking at my launch pad and realized i wanted to see peoples comments on, cleaning the blast deflector, and that platic piece that goes through it? i can see wiping it with a rag sure, but i like to hear other peoples methods, especially with that piece in the deflector being plastic.

water works well - just give em a good wash - an old toothbrush doesnt hurt. you want to get the residue off, especially off the blast deflector & launch rod as black powder residue contains sulfuric acid - a good wash after launch and your pad should last a while

Interestingly, baby wipes work well in cleaning off the residue from black powder motors. Our club uses them to wipe down the launch rods after every day of flying. They also work well to clean the residue off painted rockets. I keep a pack in my range box - they're also handy for wiping off your hands!

gpoehlein said:

Interestingly, baby wipes work well in cleaning off the residue from black powder motors. Our club uses them to wipe down the launch rods after every day of flying. They also work well to clean the residue off painted rockets. I keep a pack in my range box - they're also handy for wiping off your hands!

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Baby wipes have a multitude of uses - my TARC teams buy the jumbo packs and use them for cleaning reload cases, launch equipment and just about everything else in sight. The one thing you should NOT use a baby wipe on is a baby - use soap and water, it's much milder!

Bazookadale said:

Baby wipes have a multitude of uses - my TARC teams buy the jumbo packs and use them for cleaning reload cases, launch equipment and just about everything else in sight. The one thing you should NOT use a baby wipe on is a baby - use soap and water, it's much milder!

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Safe for use on babies:
https://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11489346

Usually if you push the plug in all the way it pushes the igniter leads nicely to the side anyway, out of the exhaust, especially if you 'help' them with your thumb. I like to double over the ends of the wires to give the clips more to bite on.
Relieving the lead by wrapping it around the pad can keep it out of the way as well.

spacecadet said:

Usually if you push the plug in all the way it pushes the igniter leads nicely to the side anyway, out of the exhaust, especially if you 'help' them with your thumb. I like to double over the ends of the wires to give the clips more to bite on.
Relieving the lead by wrapping it around the pad can keep it out of the way as well.

Click to expand...

Are we back to talking about rockets or are we still discussing babies? :gavel: