Bringing model rockets to the middle school

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MrsCarey

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I would like to enhance my NASA based curriculum and give my students the opportunity to experience model rockets. As I become more comfortable with rockets as part of my curriculum I would like to get my school more involved in bigger projects. As a part of that I have a donorschoose.org grant that I am trying to get funded.


Please visit my donor page: https://www.donorschoose.org/we-tea...tm_medium=tp&utm_content=teacherprojectposted

If you have any suggestions on building or launching the rockets I have chosen on my grant please feel free to email me or contact me on Face Book.


Also if any of your local members would like to come out and experience our launch day, I would like to invite them to do so.

Mrs. Carey
 
the linked page said tulsa ok. if they are like much of the southwest...one thing they need is rain :).
 
For 'school' rockets, you have a lot of pretty good choices.

FlisKits offers a large number of appropriate kits such as the Rhino, Thing-a-ma-Jig, and others. These kits are designed for easy, simple, fast, pretty much fool-proof construction, and are all reasonably priced. Fliskits is an excellent company for educational needs and I think you would find a lot of help and support from them.

Quest Aerospace is another company that is big-time into school rocketry and teaching the related science, including a line of very reasonably priced components. They have also been 'around' for years and will take good care of you.

You can find appropriate beginner kits all over the internet. One additional source is Balsa Machining Company, which has a specially designed school rocket kit.

All of the above tend to fall into the $8-10-12 price range per kit. If that is too high I can give you a few pointers on how to cut costs (by ordering your own parts in bulk and cutting your own parts to make your own kits) down to around $2 per kit.

Motors are going to be pretty much unavoidably pricey. There are places on the internet where you can mail-order them slightly cheaper, even in 'bulk' in a few places, but you will probably end up paying something around $2 per motor. (I am referring to A-B-C impulse class motors using blackpowder propellants, about 18mm in diameter and 2.75 inches long, that will launch many small model rockets several hundred feet into the air.)

I wish you had started this a couple years ago when Wal-Mart was clearing out their inventory by selling motor three-packs for a dollar, or more recently when the Boy Scouts of America purged their bulk-packs (24 motors for like $15). Sorry, but I don't know of any more deals like those right now.
 
Mrs. Carey,

The BMS School Rocket (highly recommended!) is $5.25 a kit. (Pick "School Rocket" off of this web page) It is complicated enough to be interesting (and teach some basic rocket-building skills) but still easy to build. It is rugged and handles wind well. For $1 more each they can be equipped with payload sections that are big enough to fly small electronic altimeters in.

In looking at what you have selected....my first thought is WOW, whoever Sargent-Welch is, they're sticking it to you. Look at https://www.acsupplyco.com/estes/bulk.htm. They work with schools all the time and will save you MUCH over those prices.

For the Electron Beams/Porta Pads: you could save serious money if you just went to Michaels Crafts (I see three stores in Tulsa) and picked up a couple of Estes Taser launch sets. Each will have a Porta Pad and Electron Beam in the package - and the packages are $20 each - or less if you have one of their regular coupons. This, of course, depends on those particular stores having rocketry stuff. Not all Michael's stores do. That's compared to $130+ for your Sargent-Welch list for the same things without the Taser kits!! Better to put the other $90 into more motors.

The Taser's not a bad little rocket, but requires three different kinds of glue to put together right, which is kind of a pain.

I see there are two Hobby Lobby stores in Tulsa as well....another possibility.

Next - how big is your launch site? B6-4s will put Alphas (and even the heavier part-plastic Alpha IIIs) pretty high. If your launch site is really the paved area in your little picture, I'd suggest sticking with the Alpha IIIs.

If you have grass or dirt and don't mind going to two sources, I'd go back to my original recommendation of BMS School Rockets. They're about the same size as Alphas (a little taller) and recover on streamers, so don't drift as far as an Alpha/Alpha III would.

Another good choice (and a good flyer) if you want the plastic nose cone/plastic fin set like the Alpha III is the Generic E2X. This one is only available as a bulk pack.

Actually, School Rockets do hold up to landings on pavement - I've done it inadvertently a couple of times - but fins likely will need repair.

I could go on and on....

One more bit of advice: whatever rocket you choose - get one or two for yourself and build one (and preferably fly it, too) before going before a group of kids with it. You'll be much better equipped to help the kids with 'em then.

Good luck!! (but get another vendor - that one is taking you or your school to the cleaners!)
 
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Unfortunately through the grant process I only had select vendors I can choose from. Since I am also new to donorschoose.org I did not know which vendor is best, the options were Frey, Nasco and Sergeant-Welch. The option for bulk rockets through all three vendors included the Alpha, Alpha III, Viking, Gnome, Wizard, and a generic. The good part is I have a donor that is matching donations so I only have to raise half the money.


If they will allow me to edit my "list" what motor should I change it to? If I can't change the motor how far will I be sending the rockets with low winds?

If I get the alphas funded.....

I can launch from either an open parking lot or a football field. Do you recommend the football field?

Any hints or tricks I need to building them?

Are they reusable?


I had wanted to do rockets with my students last year but I didn't know ANYTHING about model rockets. This summer I went to a NASA sponsored rocketry class so now I know about the basics (the parts, what is needed and basics on putting them together). Any suggestions are welcomed.


Thanks,

MrsC.
 
Given those options, I think I'd go with either the Alpha III or the Generic - both have plastic fin units that make construction a lot easier. Your best bet for motors would be the A8-3. It is readily available and won't send either of those rockets all that high. As for limiting recovery, you could either replace the parachute with a streamer or alter the parachute. Estes streamer material is exactly the same as the orange caution tape that is sold in any big box hardware store such as Lowes. It comes in 1 and 2 inch widths and one roll will supply you for many years. Attach about a two foot length of the steamer material to the shock cord with Scotch tape about halfway between the body tube and nose cone. You can also tie the shroud lines of the parachute together about halfway to the chute (we call that reeding the chute) or you can cut a hole in the center of the chute.

As far as the launch site is concerned, I'd opt for the football field unless the grass is super dry - landing on the grass will be easier on the rockets. If it's really dry, fly from the parking lot.
 
Contact Hal Ellis of Tulsa Rocketry though tulsarocketrydotorg. They work with many Tulsa area schools. A very good bunch!
 
MrsC,

First, welcome to TRF. As you can see, you can get all of your rocketry questions answered here (sometimes, far more information than you may have wanted or expected LOL)

I am Jim Flis of FlisKits, Inc. As I understand it, you appear to be locked in to a specific list of vendors and, from that list, settled on the Alpha kits. If there is any chance that you can change to other vendors, I offer my services to provide your group with a nice selection of rocket kits that you can choose from to meet your needs.

I have been teaching rocketry for many years, using these kits, and I can help you get your program off to a rousing start :)

You can reach me by going to our web site at https://fliskits.com/ and clicking on CONTACT US or just give me a call at (603) 494-1145

Which ever way you go with your class and rocketry, please also allow me to congratulate and thank you for the extra effort you are putting in to the benifit of your kids :)

Warm regards,
jim
 
Mrs Carey,

You should definetly contact Jim Flis. Jim has quite a few posts here about how he has conducted classes on rockets at various schools.

And with a rocketry group in your backyard you should contact Hal Ellis of Tulsa Rocketry.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
please check your PMs
(those are your 'private messages' that you can reach by clicking on the link in the TRF header after you log in)
 
"you can get all of your rocketry questions answered here (sometimes, far more information than you may have wanted or expected LOL)"

I am very excited about the all information, time and thought that the members of the forum have shared. I did not expect the amount of responses but I do want it and value them.

I am looking forward to exploring various types of beginner model rockets even more so knowing I have people who can and will answer questions.

Thanks!
Mrs.C
 
Since you've already gotten some good responses, all I'd like to say is thanks for making a future group of 8th-graders really happy! I bet you're an awesome teacher, Mrs. Carey.

Derek
 
Mrs. Carey,

First, Where are you located, general idea like starting with a state might help.
Local members can then contact you, via PM and get more specifics, if you
are let's say Idaho, then those potentially close to you contact you. And
those in Alabama won't waste your time, other than posting advise or ideas
on the thread.

Second, what grade are you teaching?

I teach the Rocketry Unit at our local school's "Friday Academy" for the past
2 years. This is 4th and 5th graders. We use Jim Flis' Whatchamacallit and
fly them on 1/2A-3-4T engines off a small field, about the size of 2 football
fields, maybe a bit smaller.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=11693

For next years class I built my own transparent rocket as a teaching aid.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=23132

I looked for you on facebook cannot find you...
 
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If you are planning on having a class-wide model rocket build session there are a few supplies you should pick up now, while you have the chance to grab them cheaply. Several of these suggestions are also needed for your ‘range box’ (it is much, much better to make a quick field repair and let a student complete a launch than to make them go back to the classroom for materials, miss the launch, and then have to wait for another launch day). The current back-to-school sales usually include many items you will need.

Number one is Elmers-type white glue, the water-based stuff, in the small bottles. Wmart stores around me are selling it for like 40 cents per bottle, which is a lot cheaper than the normal price, and you are going to need something on the order of one bottle per student for the build sessions. (No, they won’t use up an entire bottle on one rocket, but the little darlings are often ‘sharing-challenged’ and the build session goes much more smoothly if they each have their own to use.) So buy cheap if you get the chance.

It would also be good to pick up a few extra Sharpie markers. These come in handy for marking students names or initials onto their model rockets, and for many other tasks. You can’t hardly go wrong with having some extra Sharpies around.

If the model rocket kits you are building include white cardboard body tubes, now is a good time to pick up a few sets of colored markers and highlighters so the students can decorate their own creations. (I do NOT recommend paint of any kind for class-build sessions.)

Scissors: IMHO the ideal class-built rocket kit does not require any part cutting (knives or scissors) but as long as they are cheap you might grab an extra pair or two of scissors to keep in your ‘range box.’ You will use them

You will need a variety of tape products, including cellophane, masking, and sometimes even duct tape. A roll masking tape is very handy to keep in your range box, as one of the students always seems to show up with something loose or badly glued (my favorite is the launch lugs they ‘forget’ to add—taping a LL onto the rocket’s outside is not pretty but it is FAST and it works). Masking tape is also used on many designs to put a layer of added thickness on the outside of the motor for a more snug fit, or around the exposed motor case to tape the motor to the aft end of the rocket. A few rolls/pckgs of cellophane tape seem to always come in handy for a variety of little things.

If you see a cheapo package of modeling clay (like for a buck) I recommend you grab one. Clay is a pretty much universal ballast material for school rockets that can be worked into hollow plastic nose cones if you need to make a model rocket more stable. It doesn’t matter if the modeling clay is available in pretty colors, or strands, or any other fancy features, you just need it to be soft enough to shape and sticky enough to stay put. Most good model rocket kit manufacturers will include any clay necessary as part of the kits, but a small supply of clay can always come in handy during a class build session and even for some range repairs.

Many kits include a length of flat rubber band or elastic strap to use as part of the recovery system tether, to help absorb the shock of the ejected nose cone and parachute. If one of your students ‘loses’ their shock cord during the build session, you should have a package of flat elastic strap from the sewing department of your local fabric store—you can usually get a three foot length of 1/4inch stuff for around a dollar—cut off an 18 inch length and use as a replacement part.

Before your launch day gets here, you should prepare yourself with a small portable box of rocketry-related supplies and extras. You do not need a fancy ‘fishing’ box (fold-out trays are nice but not absolutely necessary) or anything huge; you should be able to find a suitable small toolbox for around $10 that will hold your (disassembled) launch gear, some rocket spare parts, and a few tools and supplies. A bigger toolbox would hold all that plus your day’s supply of rocket motors. All of us have our own ideas of what belongs in this ‘range box’ (just do a search of the old TRF posts and you will find several threads with lots of opinions) but I can assure you that these basic items will come in handy:

Tape (mentioned above)

Scissors (mentioned above)

Pliers – You will come across the occasional stuck motor which needs a little ‘help’ coming out (you may also want to keep a pair of needle-nose pliers in your range box

Push stick – Find a piece of 3/8 or 1/2 inch wooden dowel at the hardware store (or craft store?) and keep a couple 18 inch lengths with you; a stick comes in handy for (gently) seating the ejection wadding, also for pushing out a stuck motor case (reaching through the empty front end of a model rocket)

Screwdrivers – You will use these to open the battery compartment lids on launch controller boxes, and for many other odds-n-ends tasks

Super-glue – While you don’t want students to use this in a class build-session environment, you will use it yourself for last minute repairs---the stuff comes in darn handy in the field when a fin is cracked or a launch lug needs to be added (I recommend the cheapo dollar-store kind that comes in a set of small metal foil tubes)

Xacto knife – Another item you don’t really want to get loose during a class build-session, but is often needed for a quickee field repair

Batteries – whatever your launch controller uses, bring some spares
Modeling clay – For adding a bit of nose ballast---but I recommend you keep this in a separate plastic bag (ziplock?) if you are outside on a warm day or if you store your range box inside a hot automobile

Pkg of flame-resistant ejection wadding – Wadding is included (along with igniters) in many motor packages, but you always seem to need a few extra sheets---go ahead and get a package (alternative: you can police the launch field and pick up used pieces and re-use them)—DO NOT ever use plain toilet paper because it can be ignited by the motor ejection charge, continue burning during its fall to the ground, and start a grass fire

Spare launch lugs – these can even be drinking straws from your local eatery, cut into two or three inch lengths, and if you use them in the field you will probably be taping them on with masking tape (so plastic straw material is OK); it’s a good idea to keep these in a small container (ziplock snack bag or old used Altoids tin) so they don’t get lost and smashed in the bottom of the range box

Spare parachute – this is good to have handy in case a student’s model rocket becomes damaged (as in, melted plastic parachute from insufficient ejection wadding), all you have to do is snip off the damaged one and tie on the replacement---I don’t recommend that you run right out and order some of these now, but after you hold class launches you will probably end up with a few left-overs that you can save for emergency spares—keep these inside a small plastic bag (ziplock?) to prevent them getting tangled up with everything else in the range box

Spare streamer material – if you are using kits with streamers instead of parachutes, you can get a roll of suitable brightly colored plastic material at your local hardware store (Home Depot, Lowes, etc)---look for a roll of ‘surveyors marking tape’ usually in bright pink or yellow, a roll of that stuff will last for many repairs

Spare motor igniters – if you use any motor bulk-packs (or even the Estes-style motor three-packs) you will probably collect some extra igniters as you go---hang on to them!, keep them clean and protected in an old Altoids tin---they don’t spoil and you will eventually need them

And now I am going to step back and let the TRF gang name all their favorite range-box goodies……
 
Just a few follow-ups to the previous post.

White glue: Don't get Elmers School Glue (it's weak and runny). You want Glue-All.

Spare 'chutes: Estes bulk packs of rockets usually include a couple of them. The DO come in handy.

I concur that one spare pack of wadding is a good idea. BT-50-based rockets like the Alpha need four squares per flight and there's just barely enough included with a bulk box of motors to use it at that rate.
 
Estes streamer material is exactly the same as the orange caution tape that is sold in any big box hardware store such as Lowes. It comes in 1 and 2 inch widths and one roll will supply you for many years. Attach about a two foot length of the steamer material to the shock cord with Scotch tape about halfway between the body tube and nose cone.

If you go this route, please note that you may want to say "surveyors tape" as well as "caution tape." Caution tape tends be wider and thicker and have the word "Caution" written on it. This works but surveyors tape is thinner and cheaper and works great. One roll will last your entire class for several years and costs a couple bucks.
 
You're right, John - I should have said Surveyor's Tape rather than Caution Tape. Oh, and I've also seen the 1" wide Surveyor's Tape in a kind of pinkish red too. The orange comes in both widths.
 
White glue: Don't get Elmers School Glue (it's weak and runny). You want Glue-All.

Yeah, I wrote in a bit of a hurry and didn't quite say what I meant. BEC stated it a little more correctly and specifically. I meant 'Elmers' only to try to identify those little bottles of white water-based glue they sell for school kids (as compared to epoxy, or superglue, or gorilla glue, or other stuff that you do NOT want to put in the hands of children).

Elmers comes in a couple versions, some are more watery and runny than others. Glue-All is definitely better, if you can find it in the little bottles. If you absolutely must (if it is all that is available) you could get 'school glue' and make do, but then you will have to be even more careful that the kids do not drench their assemblies in mass quantities of glue. (Us Americans have an illness widely recognized as 'MORE IS BETTER' but in the case of these white glues, it is usually the opposite; less is better.)

I don't use it much but a lot of rocket builders swear by 'Eileens Tacky Glue' because it is even thicker, and tacks and grabs faster. I think it is a little more expensive, and I have not ever seen available at a back-to-school sale (which was kinda the whole point of trying to save you some $$$$$)

Whatever you do, do not try to use hot glue guns to attach fins. That stuff gets soft when it gets warm, as in when a model rocket is sitting in the sun waiting for launch, or when the motor burns....usually these occur at just the time when you want the fins held on TIGHT.
 
You guys have any last-minute tips for our teacher? Any other advice on how to run the launch, what sort of field repairs to expect, any other goodies needed for field ops?
 
Been doing this for a while (1964) so a couple of items to be mentioned before the meltdown begins on launch day:
If you 're using the Estes controllers-make sure the little light bulb is screwed in all the way-be sure the safety key is attached to said controller-remove same after the rocket goes away-saves your batteries if the ignitor or clips shorts to something.
Make some cool protectors for the launch rod tips by wrapping tape around a pen cap top and leave enough on each side to make a "flag"- now you can tell wind direction and protect your students from poking themselves in the face.
If you don't have enough engine plugs or they get lost/dropped-just use a little recovery wadding "gently" pushed into the nozzle w/ballpoint pen to hold the ignitor in place.
Bring an emery board to clean the clips-they get fouled w/exhaust gases.
Get the kids used to looking around- they tend to fixate to the exclusion of everything else. Look for airplanes, street traffic, what ever you think needs attention. Get them aware of the weather ( a great teaching adjunct to rockets).
Emphasize this experience IS repeatable- that's how we get new blood. Find a local club they can graduate to if they are interested.
If you want you can use a little geometry for altitude tracking by using three spotters (gives 'em something to do whilst waiting) and making cardboard disposable inclinometers (kinda like a sextant). I'm sure plans are out there to view.
Get feedback-some won't/don't get it or want it. Point out any failure is learning and you can iterate some of the early problems our space program had.
Try to keep it fun- Humans are competitive by nature but that means somebody has to lose. You've already got a head start with all the same rockets, try to use the same size motors too. Encourage individualism with decoration/grahics with felt tip pens-even water based works fairly well.
I'm sure my esteemed fellow rocketeers have other suggestins- just my two cents worth-Up in the air, junior birdmen! -Dave-
 
Make some cool protectors for the launch rod tips by wrapping tape around a pen cap top and leave enough on each side to make a "flag"- now you can tell wind direction and protect your students from poking themselves in the face.

I had forgotten this one, but you're right, the tips of those launch rods become kind of invisible when the kids get excited and start running around. If the launcher is set on the ground and the top end of the launch rod is only a few feet up, it can be easy for a kid to bend over and get poked in the face.

I like to bring an old card table to set up the launchers on. This gets the top of the launch rod up in the air beyond eyeball-level, and also makes it a lot easier to see what you are doing as you hook up the electrical launch leads (you don't have to crawl around on the ground).

Another safe way to cover the top end of a launch rod is to put an old tennis ball on it. (Remove before launch, obviously)
 
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