Tracking systems

eggtimer rocketry
Onebadhawk
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Alby said:
Assuming you aren't made of money, what is the cheap way of
Radio Tracking?

I assume building a transmitter that goes "beep, beep, beep" on a
frequency that can be detected a few miles away can't be that hard.
And then building a receiver with a meter that moves as you get closer
or farther away can't be that hard, right?


Really, $155 for a transmitter from L&L and $500 for a receiver? There
must be a cheaper homebrew option.
Click to expand...

The $300 price BRB charges for the basic 900 MHz GPS system is hard to beat.

If you feel like DIY, you can buy the 900 MHZ XBee Pro XSC RF modules from Digi for $40 each, get necessary Xbee explorer boards from Sparkfun.com for rocket and computer end, plus a GPS receiver, Li Po battery, couple antennas and miscellanous parts.

It's really not too difficult if you are ok with a soldering iron. The RF modules are pretty much plug and play. The sparkfun boards have a couple of gotchas though. I think I spent about $220, and have it working on the bench. Waiting for a suitable launch event this fall where I can send it up over a mile to test it out in a rocket.
 
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Alby said:
Assuming you aren't made of money, what is the cheap way of
Radio Tracking?

I assume building a transmitter that goes "beep, beep, beep" on a
frequency that can be detected a few miles away can't be that hard.
And then building a receiver with a meter that moves as you get closer
or farther away can't be that hard, right?


Really, $155 for a transmitter from L&L and $500 for a receiver? There
must be a cheaper homebrew option.
Click to expand...

The cheapest commercial route is definitely Big Red Bee -- $85 for the transmitter, battery and charger. Buy a used 70cm handheld on eBay for $50 - $75 and make yourself a Yagi, or buy one from Arrow Antenna.

-Kevin
 
troj said:
The cheapest commercial route is definitely Big Red Bee -- $85 for the transmitter, battery and charger. Buy a used 70cm handheld on eBay for $50 - $75 and make yourself a Yagi, or buy one from Arrow Antenna.

-Kevin
Click to expand...


Now those are some prices that work for me. 'bout 1/4 the cost of going
with LL gear from what I can gather.
 
Alby said:
Now those are some prices that work for me. 'bout 1/4 the cost of going
with LL gear from what I can gather.
Click to expand...

Yep.

If you don't feel like making your own Yagi, I'd suggest going here and buying a 7 element. Spend the extra couple of bucks and get the split boom -- it makes transportation much easier!

-Kevin
 
troj said:
The cheapest commercial route is definitely Big Red Bee -- $85 for the transmitter, battery and charger. Buy a used 70cm handheld on eBay for $50 - $75 and make yourself a Yagi, or buy one from Arrow Antenna.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Oh really? Kewl, didn't even think about that. So any 70cm receiver? Any recommendations? That sounds good!
 
MarkH said:
The $300 price BRB charges for the basic 900 MHz GPS system is hard to beat.
Click to expand...
Yes, very true. I did about the same thing you did, using the Venus 6 GPS data logger from Sparkfun, with an Arduino and LCD for the ground station. That's roughly equivalent to the full BRB900 system with datalogging and LCD display ($417) and I might have saved $150 (and spent $500 in labor.) Definitely simpler to let Greg at BRB do the work.
 
Highpowerrocketyahoo said:
Oh really? Kewl, didn't even think about that. So any 70cm receiver? Any recommendations? That sounds good!
Click to expand...

Yaesu VX-3r (also older 1 or 2) are small and have good receivers, their drawback is transmit power - only a watt or so - but you dont need transmit power for RDF.

Yaesu FT-60R another good choice - not as small but transmits 5 watts if you care to talk to others

Kenwood, Icom, and Alinco all make models that would work, just make sure they are 70cm (430-450MHz). If they also have 2 meters then they are handier for talking to others in most places as 2 meters usually is more active in a given area
 
Ok So I need a ham license for the gps stuff except the 900 BRB system but you don't need it for the RDF systems?

Also looks like RDF has longer range but takes a more triangulated approach to location rather than walk up with GPS.

Battery life seems better with RDF systems too.
 
Highpowerrocketyahoo said:
Ok So I need a ham license for the gps stuff except the 900 BRB system but you don't need it for the RDF systems?
Click to expand...

900Mhz doesn't require a ham license; anything 70cm or 2M does.

Also looks like RDF has longer range but takes a more triangulated approach to location rather than walk up with GPS.
Click to expand...

Pros and cons to both.

Battery life seems better with RDF systems too.
Click to expand...

Yep, because GPS modules really suck the battery.

-Kevin
 
JDcluster said:
What's the average battery life on the 900 MHz BRB unit?
Click to expand...
It depends on which GPS messages you have enabled and the update rate, but for one update every four seconds, assuming it has a 750 mAh battery, I figure around 6 hours.
Check with the vendor to confirm, I'm just guessing from the manual.
 
NOVAAR has a club Walston receiver. And I've got a CommSpec system. Ivan Galysh has possession of both those but he goes to most NOVAAR, BattlePark, and MDRA launches, Alby.
 
WillMarchant said:
NOVAAR has a club Walston receiver. And I've got a CommSpec system. Ivan Galysh has possession of both those but he goes to most NOVAAR, BattlePark, and MDRA launches, Alby.
Click to expand...

Will:

Thanks for the offer. I'm gonna try and make the NOVAAR Aug.20th
launch, but the rocket I plan on flying will only be running on an E Motor
and without an AV-Bay.

As for the end of October's BattlePark launch, that is where I'm shooting
for my L1 Cert and just might need that receiver. Although that depends on
if I decide to take the easy route with no electronics and save myself for
doing electronics and a more powerful engine until I go for an L2. Thats
when that receiver might come in handy. :)

Although, in the last 24/hrs, I'm thinking about just studying and taking my
HAM License Technician test, passing "hopefully", and sinking money into
a 2-Meter Tx/Rx system for my future growth. :) Plus it'll make me legal
with the 10 Meter Stryker CB Radio and 102" Whip antenna in my truck. But shushs,
you didn't hear that from me. lol
 
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SteveF said:
Yaesu VX-3r (also older 1 or 2) are small and have good receivers, their drawback is transmit power - only a watt or so - but you dont need transmit power for RDF.

Yaesu FT-60R another good choice - not as small but transmits 5 watts if you care to talk to others

Kenwood, Icom, and Alinco all make models that would work, just make sure they are 70cm (430-450MHz). If they also have 2 meters then they are handier for talking to others in most places as 2 meters usually is more active in a given area
Click to expand...


For a new radio, it's hard to beat the Yaesu FT-277R at $150.
 
WillMarchant said:
Lots of opinions to be had on this topic. I prefer the Beeline tracker and GPS offerings. I already have ham gear for the ground segment. The BigRedBee stuff is pretty small and seems reasonably priced to me. Plus it can change frequencies in case of interference.
Click to expand...
Hey Will
Lets talk frequency interference.
I plan to use my BRB 70cm Gps unit at LDRS.
Right now the frequency is set to 433.92 Mhz.
Reason being that is the freq it was set to when it came and I saw no need to change it.
What are your thoughts on using that freq at a busy launch like LDRS XXX.
I would prefer not to need to change the freq using my laptop at the launch.
Just one less thing to deal with.
My reciever will be the new Kenwood.
Which thanks to your help in the past is all set up and ready to go.
Not having much experience with this unit I would like to keep things at LDRS as simple as possible. I did use it on one test flight at the SB-3 launch. Flight was only to 7k. Systems learing test flight. Everything worked well.
Helpful thoughts and suggestions?
PS I will be taking my Ham test next Sat.
 
Ok so it looks like there are as Kevin noted pros and cons to any system. Seems like RDF has battery and range advantages and GPS is more accurate and smaller in size...trying to make up my mind. cost matters but more importantly I want the system that at the end of the day will do the overall best job. All the tracker manufactures that support our hobby deserve thanks and for me this has been a great thread as I've learned alot about tracking systems!
 
I would not recommend using the default -- you're likely to run into someone else who has done the same. Not sure if there will be any coordination of frequencies at LDRS, but anything's got to be better than 433.920

-- Greg
 
lmt56 said:
Hey Will
Lets talk frequency interference.
I plan to use my BRB 70cm Gps unit at LDRS.
Right now the frequency is set to 433.92 Mhz.
Reason being that is the freq it was set to when it came and I saw no need to change it.
What are your thoughts on using that freq at a busy launch like LDRS XXX.
I would prefer not to need to change the freq using my laptop at the launch.
Just one less thing to deal with.
My reciever will be the new Kenwood.
Which thanks to your help in the past is all set up and ready to go.
Not having much experience with this unit I would like to keep things at LDRS as simple as possible. I did use it on one test flight at the SB-3 launch. Flight was only to 7k. Systems learing test flight. Everything worked well.
Helpful thoughts and suggestions?
PS I will be taking my Ham test next Sat.
Click to expand...

Larry,

Yes, I expect there will be hundreds of trackers of various types at LDRS. A good chunk of them will be BRB units. The good news is you'll be well clear of the 216-219mHz range where the ComSpec, Walston, and L&L units live.

Pick something random off the default and you have a decent chance of finding an open frequency. When you are ready to fly, check the frequency right before you turn on your unit and scan around 360 degrees to make sure you don't have company on that frequency.

The up side is that if someone else is on your frequency, they might come back with your rocket, :D

We're going to try to remind people frequently to turn off their tracker transmitters AS SOON AS POSSIBLE after locating their rockets. Nothing worse that tracking a rocket that isn't yours. We walked in circles for hours at LDRS 25 and finally found a tracker turned on inside a locked car. Ugh.

--Lance.
 
lmt56 said:
Right now the frequency is set to 433.92 Mhz.
Click to expand...

As others have noted, 433.92 is busy with a lot of stuff. The page at https://www.arrl.org/band-plan-1 will give you some hints about what you can expect to find in that band from the ham perspective.

The new Kenwood is pretty nice! I hope you enjoy yours. The Yahoo group has been covering how to use it to ping the ham rig on the International Space Station.

Good luck with the ham test, I'm sure you'll do a great job! Lots of fun to be had with a ham radio ticket...
Best wishes,
Will
 
Highpowerrocketyahoo said:
Ok so it looks like there are as Kevin noted pros and cons to any system. Seems like RDF has battery and range advantages and GPS is more accurate and smaller in size...trying to make up my mind. cost matters but more importantly I want the system that at the end of the day will do the overall best job. All the tracker manufactures that support our hobby deserve thanks and for me this has been a great thread as I've learned alot about tracking systems!
Click to expand...

The BRB900 GPS is a hefty unit, probably a lot heavier than the TX. If you hang it in a tree, you are out $200, rather than $80 for the TX.

The BRB900 transmitter and receiver are uniquely coded, so you won't get mixed up with other users at a big launch event.

I used mine twice, and both times the rocket landed within sight and didn't lose lock. My next launch will put it to the test (2.25" rocket to 6000' in a Midwest field). Even if you exceed the 6hr battery life or lose lock for a while, you should still have a last coordinate before the rocket landed. I hope!

I like the easy to use, modern GPS coordinates, rather than roaming the fields like a wildlife biologist listening for the faint beeps of a tagged coyote (not that there is anything wrong with that! :duck:)

I also like the the license-free aspect of the BRB900. I don't want to add any more tests and regulation to my hobby. I have precious little time as it is.

Lots of nice tracking options out there, and it is a healthy, competitive market (like altimeters). Capitalism is good.
 
Last edited:
Buckeye said:
The BRB900 GPS is a hefty unit, probably a lot heavier than the TX. If you hang it in a tree, you are out $200, rather than $80 for the TX.

The BRB900 transmitter and receiver are uniquely coded, so you won't get mixed up with other users at a big launch event.

I used mine twice, and both times the rocket landed within sight and didn't lose lock. My next launch will put it to the test (2.25" rocket to 6000' in a Midwest field). Even if you exceed the 6hr battery life or lose lock for a while, you should still have a last coordinate before the rocket landed. I hope!

I like the easy to use, modern GPS coordinates, rather than roaming the fields like a wildlife biologist looking for a tagged coyote (not that there is anything wrong with that! :duck:)

I also like the the license-free aspect of the BRB900. I don't want to add any more tests and regulation to my hobby. I have precious little time as it is.

Lots of nice tracking options out there, and it is a healthy, competitive market (like altimeters). Capitalism is good.
Click to expand...

Good points
 
bigredbee said:
I would not recommend using the default -- you're likely to run into someone else who has done the same. Not sure if there will be any coordination of frequencies at LDRS, but anything's got to be better than 433.920

-- Greg
Click to expand...

if there is coordination at LDRS there can be up to 10 (I think) time slots on a freq for the GPS/APRS version if they coordinate it down to the time slot level
 
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