10,000' Drag Race. WHO's BRINGING THE WOOD????

[BayouRat]

That's right! There's this little contest called fastest to 10,000'.
There's also some still unconfirmed rumors of O-25000 CTI motors being available.

Who's Got It?

[Yoehahn]

Does it matter what motor class? like if i can hit 12000 on an H...

[mannyskid]

The impulse limit is "N". I think I've got something up my sleeve........

Manny

[BayouRat]

The impulse limit is "N". I think I've got something up my sleeve........

Manny

I did not hear of any sort of impulse limit. Where did you hear that? I was told that CTI was making the O-25000 specifically for this event. Of course that's just a rumor.

[BayouRat]

The impulse limit is "N". I think I've got something up my sleeve........

Manny

Do tell! I'm running simulations in the 4 second range.

[BayouRat]

Does it matter what motor class? like if i can hit 12000 on an H...

Doesn't matter what motor as long as you get there first.

[MClark]

Do tell! I'm running simulations in the 4 second range.

OK, you suckered me into doing a bunch of sims.

4 seconds flat would be screamin'.
5 seconds with reallity weight could be done with several motors.
But just like altitude it still take a good launch and recovery regardless of what the sim says.

Mark

[cjl]

I've actually got a project that sims out just under 4 seconds (3.99 to be exact). It won't be ready for LDRS though, and it would bust the waiver anyways.





Oh, and from the sims I've done so far, I'm actually convinced that piling on the impulse is more helpful than sheer speed. I'm not sure the O25k would be the way to go, even if everything is unlimited (since it would require a larger, heavier, draggier rocket to use). As of right now, I think the N5800 is the motor to beat.

[mannyskid]

Do tell! I'm running simulations in the 4 second range.

I've actually got a project that sims out just under 4 seconds (3.99 to be exact). It won't be ready for LDRS though, and it would bust the waiver anyways.





Oh, and from the sims I've done so far, I'm actually convinced that piling on the impulse is more helpful than sheer speed. I'm not sure the O25k would be the way to go, even if everything is unlimited (since it would require a larger, heavier, draggier rocket to use). As of right now, I think the N5800 is the motor to beat.

You guys are going to beat me, sims on mine say about 6 seconds flat. Since I can't fly Carbon Nightmare as a two stage, I'm going to fly both halves at LDRS as single stages to test the design, neither require the high altitude waiver either. The 2" will be getting the L935. The 3" willmost likely get either an M2200 skidy or the M3700 white thunder, whichever is cheaper for me, a buddy of mine is willing to give up a vintage M2200 skid for $370. Either way, both will be spectacular. I want to get to the second round because discovery/science will provide money to buy more motors!

Manny

[BayouRat]

I just got the official contest rules from the Discovery Channel Girl. It's going to be caped at N impulse. Clusters/Staging is acceptable but can not be over 20480ns total impulse commercial motors only. Here is the kicker. They are only going to reimburse $500 for the last three finalist who will compete in a Crazy Jim style drag race.

Well this sucks! I already ordered $2,200 worth of motors that I thought they would pay for half of!

SEE ATTACHED CONTEST RULES

[BayouRat]

OK, you suckered me into doing a bunch of sims.

4 seconds flat would be screamin'.
5 seconds with reallity weight could be done with several motors.
But just like altitude it still take a good launch and recovery regardless of what the sim says.

Mark

RocSim or RASAero? Did you apply any drag reducing wizardry?

[cjl]

You guys are going to beat me, sims on mine say about 6 seconds flat. Since I can't fly Carbon Nightmare as a two stage, I'm going to fly both halves at LDRS as single stages to test the design, neither require the high altitude waiver either. The 2" will be getting the L935. The 3" willmost likely get either an M2200 skidy or the M3700 white thunder, whichever is cheaper for me, a buddy of mine is willing to give up a vintage M2200 skid for $370. Either way, both will be spectacular. I want to get to the second round because discovery/science will provide money to buy more motors!

Manny

My project is not for the contest. Sims say it would be extremely competitive (as I said, <4 seconds), but I don't have any of the components yet, and it won't be ready until BALLS 2012. It's also simming to >50k feet, so it can't fly in Kansas anyways.

[MClark]

RocSim or RASAero? Did you apply any drag reducing wizardry?

RASAero. I don't have Rocsim

I just used a basic 3FNC, nothing fancy. It made little difference, a few tenths of a second, in reducing the drag with in reality.
Fast N seemed to work best, Ks could work (K700 I tryed).
All went to about 25k

I would not bet the best theoretical design wins, it will be the one that goes straight and is recovered from some far off sorghum field.

Mark

[BayouRat]

RASAero. I don't have Rocsim

I just used a basic 3FNC, nothing fancy. It made little difference, a few tenths of a second, in reducing the drag with in reality.
Fast N seemed to work best, Ks could work (K700 I tryed).
All went to about 25k

I would not bet the best theoretical design wins, it will be the one that goes straight and is recovered from some far off sorghum field.

Mark

Same here. I started working with real world numbers and I'm in the 5 second range with the big N5800 CTI motor. I think your right. Keeping it straight and keeping the fins on are going to be a challenge. Recovery? Well that's a whole nuther ball game. My last sim went to 32,000' That's gonna really be a challenge to recover.

[n3tjm]

O-25000 is like a fine chocolate. A fine chocolate that only 15 of them were made. Better to savior it alone than pop in a bunch of other chocolates.

[UPscaler]

O-25000 is like a fine chocolate. A fine chocolate that only 15 of them were made. Better to savior it alone than pop in a bunch of other chocolates.

actually, only 12 were made! But you're right, however, I'm sure they will end up in a drag race at some point.


Jim? Tim?

Braden

[alexzogh]

I have the rocket for the competition, and could pony up the money for the motors.... just need to convince my wife (and probably kids) to take a trip to Kansas. Does anyone have any pointers?

[UPscaler]

I have the rocket for the competition, and could pony up the money for the motors.... just need to convince my wife (and probably kids) to take a trip to Kansas. Does anyone have any pointers?

A fancy date and lots of candy?




Braden

[MClark]

I have the rocket for the competition, and could pony up the money for the motors.... just need to convince my wife (and probably kids) to take a trip to Kansas. Does anyone have any pointers?

Ether will make the start of the trip easier

[BayouRat]

I have the rocket for the competition, and could pony up the money for the motors.... just need to convince my wife (and probably kids) to take a trip to Kansas. Does anyone have any pointers?

Sounds like your going to have to play "Let's Make a Deal". I always come out on the loosing end with that game. That's why I'm not married any more. Everyone plays by my rules now. HAHA LOL! Maybe in my own mind but not in reality.

[alexzogh]

Whitney, you hit the nail on the head... after some horse-trading (she got the horse, I have to shovel the barn :>), I'm in.

My rocket will blow right through the 25k high altitude mark for Kloudbusters, so I've already filled out the waiver request.

Attached is a rocksim performance graph. Obviously, this is theoretical, but i've already hit Mach 2 with this rocket, which wasn't on the reload I plan on using

[BayouRat]

Whitney, you hit the nail on the head... after some horse-trading (she got the horse, I have to shovel the barn :>), I'm in.

My rocket will blow right through the 25k high altitude mark for Kloudbusters, so I've already filled out the waiver request.

Attached is a rocksim performance graph. Obviously, this is theoretical, but I've already hit Mach 2 with this rocket, which wasn't on the reload I plan on using

Ah yes, Finally some competition. Looks like you have me beat on paper. But just by .5 of a second. Just remember you have to recover in tacked and fly it again. I'm pushing 32,000' so I have to get the waiver as well. I'm at Mach 2.7 with RocSim. The numbers I don't like are. Max Q: about Mach 1.6 and at the 3,500' mark. Calculated Aerodynamic forces are about 900lbs. Pushing down on the nose. Not to mention the 40G G load. Ouch!

My answer to that is to buy more Carbon Fiber. But then my weight is going up. Trades off. Don't like em. I'll be happy if I make it to the top 3!

What are you using for tracking?

[troj]

Whitney, you hit the nail on the head... after some horse-trading (she got the horse, I have to shovel the barn :>), I'm in.

My rocket will blow right through the 25k high altitude mark for Kloudbusters, so I've already filled out the waiver request.

Attached is a rocksim performance graph. Obviously, this is theoretical, but i've already hit Mach 2 with this rocket, which wasn't on the reload I plan on using

Awesome! Nice thing is it's a proven rocket, which reduces the chances of a shred. Fewer shreds just makes us all look better!

That Whitney guy seems to have an idea as to what he's doing building rockets for this type of performance, too...

-Kevin

[falingtrea]

Looks like they are planning to use altimeter data to determine when the rocket arrives at 10000'. I wonder how well that will work? Won't the air pressure across the access ports during thrust affect the measurement? I would think that the closer to the speed of sound you get, the less accurate the real time altitude becomes.

[alexzogh]

Whitney,

I plan on a CS RF Tracker, AND probably a astro GPS. The GPS weighs a lot, but I'm really worried about being able to recover.

Anyone know what DAY the competition will be?

For that matter, anyone know what Altimeter will be used so I can make room?

[BayouRat]

Whitney,

I plan on a CS RF Tracker, AND probably a astro GPS. The GPS weighs a lot, but I'm really worried about being able to recover.

Anyone know what DAY the competition will be?

For that matter, anyone know what Altimeter will be used so I can make room?

The comp. is going to be Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I'm am going to use a couple of Beeline Transmitters. One in the nose and one in the tail. I would suspect that the Raven will be the altimeter but I am not sure. I'll ask Katie when I talk to her on Monday. I am sure they will use the accelerometer data. There is no way Barometric data will be anywhere near reliable at Mach 2.7. GPS data I would think is out of the question as well. Personally I am not looking at this from a contest aspect but more for my personal goal to get to 30,000'. There just giving me the opportunity to do it on TV.

[alexzogh]

Thanks for the info.

Frankly, your goals are more lofty than mine.

I am entering uncharted waters at this speed and altitude....
I'm just hoping the fins stay on, and i can recover the rocket :>

[mannyskid]

I just got confirmed by Bruce Lee so it looks like I'm in the race now too. Planning on bringing the booster of my 2 stage rocket Carbon Nightmare (3" minimum diameter) and flying it on an L2375 White thunder, I've got the rocket, I've got the motor, now I just need to push the button. Sims out to about 5 seconds to 10,000ft.

Manny

[mannyskid]

Here is the rocket.

Manny

[troj]

Manny, a question for you... How old are you?

Looking at the picture of you (I'm assuming that's you) and the rocket, I'd guess you're in the 15 - 17 range. Assuming I'm right, how is a minor going to enter a competition that requires Tripoli Level 2 certification?

-Kevin