Sugar and KNO3 rocket

Hello,
I would like to build a solid fuel rocket engine made of sugar and potassium nitrate.
But before building it, I want to be totally sure to make things in a way that there are no dangers.
I've read many things concerning how to prepare this fuel safely; but i have some specific questions:

1) Is there a risk that this fuel detonates or causes a dangerous explosion even if it is not in a closed space?

2)I've seen many videos about rockets of this kind that exploded because the nozzle of the engine was too small. I know that i have to keep a safety distance of tens of metres from the rocket when i ignite the engine, but, in the case that a engine explodes in my hand, what would happen to me?

3) How likely is that this fuel ignites spontaneously when it is at room temperature and relatively far from fires? Can it be ignited by friction when i handle the engine or while i put the fuel in the engine tube?

4)And at last: in the case one of these things was likely to occur, can i make something to minimize the maximum possible damage to a safe level? For example, building only small engines?

and please, when you answer, only tell things that you are sure of (or tell that you aren't sure of what you say).

Maybe i sound paranoic, but i don't want to put in danger my life or that of people near me. Sorry if my english is bad. Thank you for your answers.

This should go in the restricted propulsion area. I would think if you don't know these answers, you don't have enough research on the subject done and/or experience to attempt this.

Other than that, welcome to TRF. Look at the sticky that states how to become a member of the restricted area.

I am not an expert and cannot provide the answers that you want with any real certainty. There are, however, several members of this forum who would be happy to discuss safety procedures and involved risks with you.

Having said that, please understand that the rules of this forum are such that we do not allow discussions of propellant formulas outside of the restricted access research section. As long as you restrict your questions and discussions to safety procedures your questions should be more than acceptable.

Again, please accept our welcome to TRF! I hope that you discover as much information, learning and friendship as I have.

Why don't you buy some rocket engines...:wink:

Thank you for your answers, but i'm a bit confused:
does this thread have to be closed, or it can go on because i'm only talking about safety? And if it has to be closed, can i attempt to access the restricted section?

First welcome to TRF. There are over 1000 active members who can provide you with information on hobby rocketry using commercial hobby rocket motors, and we hope you will participate.

Making your own rocket motors can be dangerous, and is not as easy as it seems as you have seen on various YOUTUBE videos. TRF is a general hobby rocketry forum with many new and young members, so we do not discuss amateur motor making on our public forums because of the potential dangers involved. We have a private research forum restricted to high power certified US citizens only due to US ITAR regulations. Please read this notice what the rules are to get access to it. https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=17943

You can find a lot of reliable information on sugar propulsion at Richard Naaka's website https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/ if you don't qualify.

Bob

thank you, now i understand. also thank you for the link because i just read that i have none of the 3 requirements to be a research group member.

a2b said:

Thank you for your answers, but I'm a bit confused:
does this thread have to be closed, or it can go on because I'm only talking about safety? And if it has to be closed, can i attempt to access the restricted section?

Click to expand...

No the thread does not have to be closed provided no formulations are discussed, and we discuss safety, however this is definitely not a beginner topic.

a2b said:

Hello,
I would like to build a solid fuel rocket engine made of sugar and potassium nitrate.
But before building it, I want to be totally sure to make things in a way that there are no dangers.
I've read many things concerning how to prepare this fuel safely; but i have some specific questions:

1) Is there a risk that this fuel detonates or causes a dangerous explosion even if it is not in a closed space?

2)I've seen many videos about rockets of this kind that exploded because the nozzle of the engine was too small. I know that i have to keep a safety distance of tens of meters from the rocket when i ignite the engine, but, in the case that a engine explodes in my hand, what would happen to me?

3) How likely is that this fuel ignites spontaneously when it is at room temperature and relatively far from fires? Can it be ignited by friction when i handle the engine or while i put the fuel in the engine tube?

4)And at last: in the case one of these things was likely to occur, can i make something to minimize the maximum possible damage to a safe level? For example, building only small engines?

and please, when you answer, only tell things that you are sure of (or tell that you aren't sure of what you say).

Maybe i sound paranoid, but i don't want to put in danger my life or that of people near me. Sorry if my English is bad. Thank you for your answers.

Click to expand...

Making motors is not safe. There are always dangers, so making rocket motors is hazardous work. There are techniques to mitigate the hazards, but you can not eliminate them, nor is it possible to prevent someone from making a mistake.

Hobby rocket motors are low explosives, they will not detonate, but they deflagrates (burn vigorously and rapidly) and may over pressurize the casing causing an explosion.

It is not possible to extinguish a propellant fire as the fuel and the oxidizer are combined in the propellant and will even burn underwater. Mixing the propellant which are fine powders and heating the sugar propellant are places in the manufacturing process where fires and burns can happen.

Commercial rocket motors must pass certain UN tests to insure that they will not spontaneously ignite or explode, or be overly sensitive to friction or static. All commercial rocket propellants are stable at room temperature with an ignition temperature of at least 500 F, however if a rocket motor were to explode in your hand, you would loose the hand and possibly your life from shrapnel or the ensuing fire.

There are no standards or testing for amateur propellant, so who knows what may happen, especially if the person modifies a composition or procedure. An amateur can make an explosive propellant and not know it, and that's what is extremely dangerous about an amateur making their own motors. If it were to explode, a motor with only a few grams of propellant can kill you, either by shrapnel from the casing, or by the ensuing fire. This has happened and is a painful way to die. Fortunately it does not happen often, with less than a dozen serious injuries in the US each year and a fatality every 2 to 5 years.

The only fatal accidents involving commercial hobby motors have occurred in the manufacturing facilities, so it's even dangerous for the pros. The largest hobby rocket hazard in the US is attempting to recover a rocket from a power line. Although it is forbidden by all rocketry safety codes, unfortunately 1 or 2 individuals die from electrocution each year attempting to retrieve a rocket from a power line.

You wanted answers, but they are probably not what you wanted to hear.

Bob

To bobkrech:
Thank you for having warned me. Yes, what you are saying about the amateur rocket engine making is certainly true; i agree, for example i would never mix random chemicals: i want to know before. I was only hoping that, since i had specified the exact chemicals i was going to use, and i was also able to talk about other details, maybe it was possible to rule out some possible hazards...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=959E5Oh7gPM

motor made by guys in a garage (or something). our very own troj was on this project, and though i'm not sure what part of the build he worked on mostly, i'm sure he knew what was going in the motor. the stuff is dangerous and expensive, and to do it safely, you need to set up safety protocols. that kid mashing KNO3 into a tube with kitty litter was asking to have it explode on him.

i'd strongly suggest you buy some commercial motors, find a NAR or tripoli club near you, and learn to build larger and or stronger rockets. then if you still want to do EX, join tripoli and go to a research launch. if you're level 2 you'll be able to launch a motor with upto 5120 N total. You need to be able to roughly figure out how much energy will be expended through your rocket, if you just put propellent into a tube without figuring the energy, you could easily hurt someone.