Saturn V Cardstock Flight Conversion?

[RocketT.Coyote]

I am presently in process of building Ton Noteboom's 1:96 scale Saturn V with the goal of making it flightworthy. About 70% complete and deciding whether to go Apollo or Skylab. A bit large for doing the swing test in the back yard. So I'm asking if this model will require larger fins/noseweight for stable flight on a D12 motor. Is E15 powered flight recommended?

[DSWALLS]

I would use modeling clay for your nose weight. I too live in a constricted area, and when I built Ton's 1/48 Soyuz I had to use redneck engineering to get the CB correct. After I had everything assembled I put the motor I wanted in and kept adding clay in the nose until it balanced out on the string I calculated to be center. As for the fins, I havent had a problem with any cardstock model stability using the fins, or in some cases fin patterns (I sometimes substitute balsa in place of cardstock for the fins for durability) My Long March rocket only had the boosters acting as fins for stability, and up until Mother Nature snatched it from me flew straight and true. As for the motor, I would go with a D for the first flight, then if everything is GUCCI, move up to an E15. I hope this helps!

1 more thing: I use clear enamel spray on my cardstock rockets for added durability. Three coats, after the ink on the paper dries (24 hrs)

[RocketT.Coyote]

Building both Apollo and Skylab 3rd stages to switch as the mood strikes. Extended motor tube about 1.5" from base, similar to Dr. Zooch Saturn Vs. Was considering Clear plastic fins epoxied to a sleeve to slide over motor tube. The fins poking out between engine bells. I better get some photo-documentation too.

[[POW]Eagle159]

WOW, that is pretty big for a card stock rocket... an E20-4 I think would be cool.... when you get it done WE WANT VIDEO!!! And pictures.

[RocketT.Coyote]

I think there's a few E20-4s in the motor box, but this project only takes 24mm motors. Anyway, here's the work in progress:

[[POW]Eagle159]

I think there's a few E20-4s in the motor box, but this project only takes 24mm motors. Anyway, here's the work in progress:

The E20-4w's are 24mm by 70mm the same size as estes D12-3...

[RocketT.Coyote]

Has E12-4s, E15-4Ws, and E20-4s.

[SteveA]

I'm glad you're doing this. I have this model as well and have contemplated building it as a flying model. I'm really interested in seeing how this turns out for you!

Steve

[RocketT.Coyote]

I'm glad you're doing this. I have this model as well and have contemplated building it as a flying model. I'm really interested in seeing how this turns out for you!

Steve

Tried to get a boilerplate model into the sky last Saturday, but at noon the showers came. Got a second flight out of my 1:48 scale Little Joe 2 though.

[SteveA]

Are you wrapping this around a tube, or are you using centering rings and stringers?

[RocketT.Coyote]

Using 110-lb cardstock with illustration board bulkheads and rings. Illustration board stringers inside stage 2 interstage. Substituting hardwood dowels, shaped to a "D" cross-section for the wiring tunnels on S1 and S2. Balsa and hardwood for conduit and wiring tunnel on S4b. Double thickness of cardstock in parachute compartment--upper half of S2.

[SteveA]

Using 110-lb cardstock with illustration board bulkheads and rings. Illustration board stringers inside stage 2 interstage. Substituting hardwood dowels, shaped to a "D" cross-section for the wiring tunnels on S1 and S2. Balsa and hardwood for conduit and wiring tunnel on S4b. Double thickness of cardstock in parachute compartment--upper half of S2.

Nice!




Steve

[RocketT.Coyote]

Finally--documented proof that it flies:

http://www.vimeo.com/27747736

[SteveA]

Beautiful.



Apollo 13 soundtrack, very nice touch.


So, I do have to ask, in the span of time from launch to deployment of recovery at what level was the pucker factor?



Steve

[Saluki]

Nice flight. You must be real happy with how well it flys.

Now for a few questions. Did you use stock size fins? How much weight did you use in the nose? Where was the CB at on the model? Any advice to someone starting out on building this rocket? Once again great work.

[RocketT.Coyote]

Trying to keep the model in frame with the sun behind you was a bit of a challenge. The model fell sideways for about a count of two during coast phase.

Put the CG at about the S-1/S-2 interstage. Fin size is exactly the same as printed--3/32" sheet stock sandwich.

[Saluki]

Thanks for the information I'm sure it will help me out. I have started building my Saturn V. I have built Ton Saturn V before about 3 years age for a display. This time around I am starting out by building the engines. I am useing Greelt 1/48 F-1 engines scaled down to 1/96 on this Saturn. I might do a build thread. Thanks again for the info.

[DSWALLS]

Beautiful flight/recovery!!! All around amazing job Sir!!!

[RocketT.Coyote]

Also built and test flew the Skylab version. Actually flies better than the Apollo Saturn V. Used Top Flight 24" lightweight nylon chute to recover the booster. Broke 2 F-1s on landing but an easy fix.

The Apollo Saturn V was given more nose weight and flown in a Demo last week. It pitched with the wind a few seconds after liftoff only 50' AGL and pranged but was repaired in a half-hour. May need to reduce nose weight or add a clear fin unit to this one.

As you may expect, both models are larger than the Estes Saturn V kit.

Planning to build a J Mission Saturn V.

[RocketT.Coyote]

Built one as an Apollo J-Mission Saturn V. Open latticework for the LES and extra details on the booster. Video to follow.

[Montaro]

Congrat !!

Look nice , i can't wait to watch the video !!

[RocketT.Coyote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipaavdYHO-o

[[POW]Eagle159]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipaavdYHO-o

Do you know what happened to that flight? I hope your Saturn V is ok...any damage?

I love the videos and Saturn V too!

[RocketT.Coyote]

The first model--the boilerplate--exhibits the same flight profile it did in the first video: Once forward motion tapers off, then the wind pushes it sideways. Light wind blowing left to right. It also seemed to fly about as high as the Estes Saturn V on an E15-4W.

A heartstopping flight.

The second model--the J-Mission Saturn--caught a bit of a breeze when the wind shifted from behind the camera and pushed it over. Only light damage sustained to an engine bell--a tear and a dent that was easily repaired that evening. The first model actually had more damage, but also easy to fix.

I think more fin area is the answer. Presently crafting a unit with clear fins to slide over the engine mount tube. Don't know if the modification will get flight tested before the snow flies here.

[[POW]Eagle159]

The first model--the boilerplate--exhibits the same flight profile it did in the first video: Once forward motion tapers off, then the wind pushes it sideways. Light wind blowing left to right. It also seemed to fly about as high as the Estes Saturn V on an E15-4W.

A heartstopping flight.

The second model--the J-Mission Saturn--caught a bit of a breeze when the wind shifted from behind the camera and pushed it over. Only light damage sustained to an engine bell--a tear and a dent that was easily repaired that evening. The first model actually had more damage, but also easy to fix.

I think more fin area is the answer. Presently crafting a unit with clear fins to slide over the engine mount tube. Don't know if the modification will get flight tested before the snow flies here.

Yeah, On my estes Saturn, with the D12, I noticed it tilt over quite a bit after burn out of the engine. I think is the rather slow speed of the rocket with the wide tube.

[RocketT.Coyote]

May attempt E-class flights once the rocket-building weather ends. Will add a second Top Flight thin mil 24" chute instead of extra ballast. The Skylab version may be the test model for the first E flight, although the boilerplate Apollo Saturn V model has logged 3 D12 flights.

[[POW]Eagle159]

May attempt E-class flights once the rocket-building weather ends. Will add a second Top Flight thin mil 24" chute instead of extra ballast. The Skylab version may be the test model for the first E flight, although the boilerplate Apollo Saturn V model has logged 3 D12 flights.

Might need some nose weight for an E launch. ( I learned this the HARD way)

stock estes Saturn V with the E20-4...

Launched great, at around 200Ft, (already higher than the D12) she looped twice an fell sideways on to a tree limb (with leaves) and bounced off and hit the ground sideways. A second latter, the ejection charge went off, and the nose section shot off 15 Ft forward and the rocket body went back a few inches.

Repaired with nose weight, she will soon fly again in the winter.


Good luck whatever you do! ( I really like those vids. too)

[Saluki]

Coyote here is a Saturn you might want to try. Looks like it would have room for a 2 or 3 D12 cluster mounts. http://www.classicpaperspacemodels.dk/satc8.htm

[Pem Tech]

Take look at this beast....
And it is an air rocket!
http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/m...ive-build.html

[RocketT.Coyote]

Carried out successful flight of the better-detailed Saturn V with clear fin unit. Video to follow.