1/2 scale Patriot Which one?

Hey I am new to this site and I was hoping you guys could give me some advice. I am looking for a big L2 rocket and I was wanting to get a 1/2 scale of the Patriot. I saw PML has one and also Polecat aerospace. I have never used any kit from both companies so I am not sure which one is better. I was leaning toward the Polecat because it is 75 mm motor mount. So, which one do you guys recommend?
Thanks in advance

Either one would be a great L2 kit. Just as a heads up, you can order the PML version with a 98 or 75 motor mount, its generally a good idea to order a larger motor mount, in case you want to fly larger motors in the future. Its easy to adapt down, but not so much the other way around. I like the G10 fins and I've heard good things about the fiberglass nosecones included in the PML kits.

Quick dual deploy question. If I set a rocket up dual deploy am I still able to recover it using single deploy?

COrocket said:

Either one would be a great L2 kit. Just as a heads up, you can order the PML version with a 98 or 75 motor mount, its generally a good idea to order a larger motor mount, in case you want to fly larger motors in the future. Its easy to adapt down, but not so much the other way around. I like the G10 fins and I've heard good things about the fiberglass nosecones included in the PML kits.

Click to expand...

well by PML you will need to fiberglass the body tubes first, if you going for the 75/98 upgrade,
also PML's version has a standard piston kit, very nice.


performance rocketry sales 1/2 scale patriot fully made of G10, but almost twice the price.

I bought one years ago from an auction site. It is mostly complete. It's missing the 54mm motor tube. No big loss. It's also missing the 98mm filler tube that centered the 54 tube. I plan on changing it to strictly a 98mm mount. But I'll adapt down. It'll take different tubes, but I'm also gonna change it to dual deploy. Someday. After I finish all my other projects. Maybe....
Adrian

cessena12 said:

Quick dual deploy question. If I set a rocket up dual deploy am I still able to recover it using single deploy?

Click to expand...

Yes.

blackjack2564 said:

Yes.

Click to expand...

Yes, but you will still have to use electronics. I don't know of a 75mm or 98mm motor with ejection. I suppose you could put in a 54mm with motor ejection, but the volume of space you need to pressurize will exceed the typical BP ejection charge in a commercial motor.

I launched my 1/2 patriot this weekend and it required 6 grams of BP just in the payload section for proper ejection, and Vern's formula actually called for more (here).

alexzogh said:

Yes, but you will still have to use electronics. I don't know of a 75mm or 98mm motor with ejection. I suppose you could put in a 54mm with motor ejection, but the volume of space you need to pressurize will exceed the typical BP ejection charge in a commercial motor.

I launched my 1/2 patriot this weekend and it required 6 grams of BP just in the payload section for proper ejection, and Vern's formula actually called for more (here).

Click to expand...

I don't like a 1/2 patriot with a 54mm engine, I'm afraid that if I paint it, it doesn't come off of the launchpad, cause its to heavy

Thanks guys. I was planning on using some kind of electronics.

I have a PML Patriot that I have flown about 5 times. Yes you will have to fiberglass it and it was my first glassing job. Came out fine. I did not use the piston and made it into a dual deploy. Here is where I messed up, I didn't have enough room for the main chute at the launch, just didn't fit. Bought a 12 inch long tube and a coupler to extend the main body (see tan area in pic 1). Now the chute fits. It ended up at 35 lbs. and I use 54mm cases in it because it's the largest I own right now. It is adapted down to use k550 and k1100 if there is any wind. A simple kit to build but you might want to figue ALL the costs involved in building it. Chute, fiberglass, casings etc. it adds up.

PML parts are great. I'm on my third PML build. Consider increasing the thickness on the fins and a larger chute. PML has an engine chart on their website which can provide recommendations as to fin thickness vs engine size.

Contact their sales person Kim at [email protected]. She can provide quotes on custom configurations of standard kits. If you want a 98mm or 75mm mount, just tell her and she can have the kit modified to your specification. If you are doing any customization, design everything in Rocksim first before placing your order. There are Rocksim files for all of the PML kits that you can use as a starting point. Then use the customized Rocksim file to generate your BOM for order placement.

For glassing, visit Vern K's glassing page at https://www.vernk.com/Construction/StarfireBodyTubes.htm. I used a weber rotisserie motor rather than the water cooler pulleys he used. It's a lot easier than you think. I was intimidated by it before I tried it.

definitely the polecat one! Polecat kits are amazing quality, and the airframes come pre-fiberglassed, no messing with fiberglassing the brittle phenolic tubes.




Braden

If you have the money, the PR 1/2 Patriot is a really nice rocket.

SUPER simple to construct, and "almost" indestructible. It is expensive though.

Don't forget the Vinyl from stickershock. They look great, as long as you put them on correctly :>

UPscaler said:

...no messing with fiberglassing the brittle phenolic tubes.

Click to expand...

Yeah but once you can fiberglass the brittle phenolic tubes, you'll also know how to fiberglass the really cheap, really big concrete forms.

degreaser said:

Yeah but once you can fiberglass the brittle phenolic tubes, you'll also know how to fiberglass the really cheap, really big concrete forms.

Click to expand...

That's true, but I have become accustom to fiberglass tubing thanks to Tim Lehr, now I'm just used to everything being really simple!:wink:


Trust me, I'm not above fiberglassing phenolic, or paper tubing, but from now on, if I have the money, my rockets will either be fiberglass or blue tube!



Braden

UPscaler said:

That's true, but I have become accustom to fiberglass tubing thanks to Tim Lehr, now I'm just used to everything being really simple!:wink:

Click to expand...

True but you'll learn so much more by doing a few layups. There's a feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment when your layup turns out nicely. It's a lot like baking your own bread or roasting your own coffee. It's your craftsmanship. And then there's the fine aroma of laminating epoxy curing in the shop. There's nothing quite like it.

I got a chance to see TFish's minimum diameter build at Mudroc (aka motor casing with fins rocket). The only way to get there from here is by starting with some simple layups, honing your skills and moving to more complex projects over time. So my vote is still in for the PML phenolic/fiberglass Patriot.

Well I am getting my Level 3 in September. I have a completed Half Scale Patriot. It is made out of 7.5 inch diameter Blue Tube and half inch center rings and fins!!! No Glassing Required!!!!!!!!!!!!

andrewlathrop87 said:

Well I am getting my Level 3 in September. I have a completed Half Scale Patriot. It is made out of 7.5 inch diameter Blue Tube and half inch center rings and fins!!! No Glassing Required!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

Ford/Chevy

degreaser said:

True but you'll learn so much more by doing a few layups. There's a feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment when your layup turns out nicely. It's a lot like baking your own bread or roasting your own coffee. It's your craftsmanship. And then there's the fine aroma of laminating epoxy curing in the shop. There's nothing quite like it.

I got a chance to see TFish's minimum diameter build at Mudroc (aka motor casing with fins rocket). The only way to get there from here is by starting with some simple layups, honing your skills and moving to more complex projects over time. So my vote is still in for the PML phenolic/fiberglass Patriot.

Click to expand...

I would agree with this, but I've done my fair share of fiberglassing. I made the body tube for my halloween rocket with fiberglass, made two 38mm motor tubes for the crayons out of fiberglass. I do love the smell of proline!

My new love is carbon fiber, but it's expensive :sad:


Braden

UPscaler said:

That's true, but I have become accustom to fiberglass tubing thanks to Tim Lehr, now I'm just used to everything being really simple!:wink:


Trust me, I'm not above fiberglassing phenolic, or paper tubing, but from now on, if I have the money, my rockets will either be fiberglass or blue tube!



Braden

Click to expand...

Good point...if you can already buy fiber glass tubes then why bother with doing it??

RocketManDan said:

Good point...if you can already buy fiber glass tubes then why bother with doing it??

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy doing it, sometimes it's just nice for a simple build. Orr, you can take the extra work out of the equation, and spend the time on something else, say, building a 3 inch minimum diameter booster to stage to a 3 inch sustainer with a 54mm L in it?


Hint Hint



Braden

RocketManDan said:

Good point...if you can already buy fiber glass tubes then why bother with doing it??

Click to expand...

Go look at tfish's build on the sticky. You can't buy those.

Besides, some people LIKE rolling their own. There's only one way to find out if you like it. Try it.

And the 54mm motor case with fins is appealing too

So Cessna - whaddaya think? Are we opinionated or what?