ACME Conformal® Rail Guides

Wayco · May 24, 2011

I have three flights on my LOC Nuke Pro Maxx, two of which were a little wobbly off the 6 ft. launch rod I'm currently using. The first one was on a G-64W and the wind was about 15 mph so I assumed that was what caused the wobble.

The second was on an H-123 and came off with just a little wobble in light winds:

The third launch was on a H-128 and it wobbled too, but the video is a little shaky:

Someone suggested that the 1/4" rod might be the problem, so I'm upgrading to a 6 ft. 1010 launch rail I found on Amazon.com:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F0K4KA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Since my rocket is already built and I have never used launch rail buttons, I did a little research on the subject. Hitting the thin centering rings sounded a little "iffy" for my experience level, so I'm thinking about using the ACME Conformal® Rail Guides I found on Giant Leap Rocketry's webpage. You can find them by clicking down from products to launch systems on this webpage:
https://www.giantleaprocketry.com/hpdefault.asp
Has anyone used these?
The Nuke is a 58mm body tube, and the closest guide is for a 54mm tube, they have instructions to adjust the arc of the guide by sanding it out on the BT you have. Just wondering if anyone has done this procedure and any advice you might have.
I'm also looking for advice on mounting this rail to the end of a wooden 2x4. Most of the builds I have read about use 1/2" steel rod attached to the rail. I have seen drill bit chucks used to fit this to the launch pad, and that seems like a good idea, I just like to run this by everyone here before I jump into this project. Any advice would be appreciated.

troj · May 24, 2011

Personally, I'm not a fan of the conformal guides -- I've seen them come off.

-Kevin

boomtube · May 24, 2011

I haven’t used the ACME Rail Guides but I have several rockets with the ACME conformal rod guides and they work great. Two paper tube airframes, one Blue Tube and one made from whatever Public Missiles uses in their “Excalibur” kit.

Toss the self-stick double sided tape they supply and glue them on using J.B.Weld epoxy the original type. Gray, messy, smelly and slow curing.

Since your rocket is already painted you’ll need to grind/sand through the paint/primer and then rough-up the paper tube.

mannyskid · May 24, 2011

troj said:
Personally, I'm not a fan of the conformal guides -- I've seen them come off.

-Kevin

I agree with Kevin, although many people do either fiberglass of use carbon to attach these to the airframe, but seeing as though your rocket is already painted, you probably don't want to do that. What I would recomend is going with the rail buttons and using a rubber expanding nut. You can find them at any hardware store and you don't need to hit the thin centering rings. They are what I've always used.

Manny

edwinshap1 · May 25, 2011

i've never used the acme guides, but i have used the PML rail guides. They aren't as streamlined as the acme, but they're made of a plastic material and are surface mounted as well.

i used JB weld to secure mine on. I mixed the amount i needed, waited 1 hour (it turns to a putty) and then put a little ball on each area i needed and secured.

the PML ones work from 1.5" or 38mm and up, and the 1515 guides they sell go from 3" and up. You can sand down the little notches on the sides so that it will adhere to a larger tube, but in either case, epoxy epoxy epoxy lol.

MarkH · May 25, 2011

I've got ACME conformal rail guides on a 4" rocket and they have held up fine after 5 flights. Just be sure to sand the paint off the body. You might want to sand the rail guide on the under side a little to give the epoxy a little more something to grab onto. As others have said make sure to use J B Weld to attach the aluminum guide to the cardboard tube. The 58 mm tube used in the Nuke Pro Maxx is the outside diameter and what is commonly referred to as 54 mm tube. The inside diameter is 54mm and is a standard motor diameter, hence why it is called 54 mm tube. I am sure the acme rail guides are made to fit "54 mm" body tube.

cwbullet · May 25, 2011

I have use ACME rail gudies and rod guides. The only time I have had them come off is if I use the included glue pads or once when I had a CATO. If I use Epoxy, they only come off if I want them to coem off.

troj · May 25, 2011

At SLI, we found one, with epoxy attached, at the pads during cleanup.

-Kevin

rcktnut · May 25, 2011

troj said:
At SLI, we found one, with epoxy attached, at the pads during cleanup.

-Kevin

That is the only con I've found with the guides. Because of the length of them you have to be carefull loading them on the rail at least till you get them all in place. If your not carefull and move the rocket to much one way or the other with only one guide on the rail there can be quite abit of stress placed on that guide.

I've never ripped one off yet, and have these guides on 3 Quantum tube ( 2 -4in., 1-3in. dia.) rockets. Sand all surfaces very well with 60 grit, and use JB Weld. Be carefull loading them on the rail and they should serve you well.

patelldp · May 25, 2011

I would stay away from the ACME conformal lugs, as well.

Buy some rail buttons from www.railbuttons.com, drill two holes in line on your airframe (using a #29 tap drill bit), tap them using an 8-32 tap, and then use super glue or 5 minute epoxy to glue them into the thread you have created.

Don't worry about hitting your centering rings. This method will be plenty strong for this sized rocket. I have done this on rockets up to 6" diameter on 1515 rails with no issues.

Aksrockets · May 25, 2011

Not any more you cant. He is shutting down. :cry:

Wayco · May 25, 2011

Thanks for all the replies, looks about 50/50 on the guides. I might just get a set and try them before I drill more holes in my Nuke. They're only $3.40, what could go wrong? :y::rofl:

freddiejojo · May 25, 2011

I am pleased that some like our Acme Rail Guides and Launch Lugs. And for several years now we have also stocked Delrin Rail Buttons for the customers who prefer those.

Come and get 'em, plenty of everything in stock.

Thank you,

Kent
Giant Leap Rocketry

Viperfixr · May 25, 2011

I've used them on several rockets now...seem to work great with a little care. I roughed up the airframe with 60-grit sandpaper, and the same to the conformal rail guide until it was quite scratched up on the bottom. Then I cleaned the surface with alcohol and used Aeropoxy ES6209 and rubber bands to hold it tight for the long cure.

Fingers crossed, I have not had one come off. I did find someone else's at the pads once. They work great for airframes where there's no room in the airframe for a rail button, like a MD application, or a LOC V-2 I put them on. YMMV.

Wingarcher · May 25, 2011

troj said:
At SLI, we found one, with epoxy attached, at the pads during cleanup.

I found TWO :eyepop: in a (both in the same) rail channel after NYPOWER last year. They had JB Weld on them and the mating surface where the glue and rocket came together was polished smooth. No sanding of the body tube had been done.

I am HOPING that someone popped them both off while loading a rocket and wandered away in frustration and forgot them.

N

Handeman · May 26, 2011

I used them on my L1 rocket. I had guides for 1515 rails which is what the club had the year before. When I got out there in the spring to cert, they had gotten 1010 rails and didn't set up any 1515.
I sanded through the paint on the rocket, sanded the guide with 80 grit to rough it up, glued them on with 5 min. epoxy and go my cert an hour later. The guides were used for several years and only came off when I flew an I1299N. It tore a few layers of paper off the tube when they did come off.

Be warned, I've been told some clubs don't allow aluminum guides to be used on their rails, they believe it will tear up the rails.

The buttons with the expanding rubber nuts also work very well.

edwinshap1 · May 27, 2011

Handeman said:
I used them on my L1 rocket. I had guides for 1515 rails which is what the club had the year before. When I got out there in the spring to cert, they had gotten 1010 rails and didn't set up any 1515.
I sanded through the paint on the rocket, sanded the guide with 80 grit to rough it up, glued them on with 5 min. epoxy and go my cert an hour later. The guides were used for several years and only came off when I flew an I1299N. It tore a few layers of paper off the tube when they did come off.

Be warned, I've been told some clubs don't allow aluminum guides to be used on their rails, they believe it will tear up the rails.

The buttons with the expanding rubber nuts also work very well.

it's abrasive because of the metal to metal rubbing. some clubs don't allow sparkies to be flown on their pads due to the titanium gunk build up as well.

the club i fly with allows acme guides if teflon tape is used to cover the exposed edges to stop the rubbing action.

New Ocean · May 27, 2011

I always use the Acme rail guides. They never seem to fall off. Be sure to deeply score the bottom of rail guide and matching airframe surface. Not just sanding, but actually scratch grooves into the surface with a sharp metal object. A nice grid pattern works well, and then apply JB weld and firm pressure to fill the grooves with epoxy.

Wayco · May 27, 2011

New Ocean said:
I always use the Acme rail guides. They never seem to fall off. Be sure to deeply score the bottom of rail guide and matching airframe surface. Not just sanding, but actually scratch grooves into the surface with a sharp metal object. A nice grid pattern works well, and then apply JB weld and firm pressure to fill the grooves with epoxy.

Thanks for the tip, I'm thinking plastic wire ties will give me the "firm pressure" I need until the JB weld cures. If I can center the guides over the fore and aft centering rings, there will be less chance of crimping the body tube.

edwinshap1 said:
the club i fly with allows acme guides if teflon tape is used to cover the exposed edges to stop the rubbing action.

How does that work? Are you applying the tape to the guide? Pictures?
I'm planning to use my own rail, as I mentioned in the original post, but this might help the rocket get up to speed before leaving the rail too. The main intent of this upgrade (rail and rail guides) is to allow me to use some of the smaller motors available. Since my Nuke weighed in at 27 oz., Thrustcurve recommended the smallest motor to use is a G61. My first flight was on a G64 and it was a little wobbly, maybe the wind, maybe the 1/4" rod. I can get G64 and G76 reloads for my 29/40-120 casing for $9.28 at Hobbylinc, which beats the H motor costs by half. More launches equals more fun in my book.

troj · May 27, 2011

edwinshap1 said:
the club i fly with allows acme guides if teflon tape is used to cover the exposed edges to stop the rubbing action.

The key with ACME guides is to make sure they're lined up properly. Use a rail, or some other straight-edge, to do so.

if they're not lined up properly, they can damage the rail.

-Kevin

ACME Conformal® Rail Guides

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