Dr. Zooch Lifting Body build thread

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Maybe I read too fast through these posts, but I didn't find much description of how the lifting body itself flew.

A lot of these shapes are really only practical for achieving a 'controlled' descent, with some small margin of steerability and cross-range capability. Have not seen one yet that 'glides' like a real aircraft, and some want to roll upside down from the way you want them to fly. And if you are building a model-sized LB you have to be extra careful to get all fins aligned perfectly or else the things will want to tumble out of control.

Have you tried building one out of cardstock, using minimal glue, and not using paint? Pretty often, excess weight (glue, paint, decals, etc) can be a real killer on what little glide characteristics these things have to begin with.
 
Luke these pictures are awesome! thank you!what is neat about this kit is you can kinda do whatever you want with it...endless possibilities!
 
hi Powderburner...I will let you know when I get to fly this one....but from what I read it is not going to go soaring...I think Dr. Zooch indicated that the shape we build in this kit is actually upside down...so you were absolutely correct in that these things like to roll upside down....he made a video on youtube ...its a spoof actually...but he described exactly what you were saying so in Zooch style he simply called upside down right side up and flies it that way...

powderburner said:
Maybe I read too fast through these posts, but I didn't find much description of how the lifting body itself flew.

A lot of these shapes are really only practical for achieving a 'controlled' descent, with some small margin of steerability and cross-range capability. Have not seen one yet that 'glides' like a real aircraft, and some want to roll upside down from the way you want them to fly. And if you are building a model-sized LB you have to be extra careful to get all fins aligned perfectly or else the things will want to tumble out of control.

Have you tried building one out of cardstock, using minimal glue, and not using paint? Pretty often, excess weight (glue, paint, decals, etc) can be a real killer on what little glide characteristics these things have to begin with.
Click to expand...
 
NJRick said:
hi Powderburner...I will let you know when I get to fly this one....but from what I read it is not going to go soaring...I think Dr. Zooch indicated that the shape we build in this kit is actually upside down...so you were absolutely correct in that these things like to roll upside down....he made a video on youtube ...its a spoof actually...but he described exactly what you were saying so in Zooch style he simply called upside down right side up and flies it that way...
Click to expand...

Yeah... they don't "glide" anything like a classical "glider" in that sense of the word... The Zooch space shuttle glides much like the real thing (fast and steep) and this glides that way even moreso... again, much like the real thing.

Lighter DOES help, but onto up to a point... eventually you get to the point where the thing is simply TOO LIGHT to penetrate the air, and it basically "flutters" out of the sky because drag completely overwhelms the velocity...

Later! OL JR :)
 
just finished up some flight testing at Edwards AFB up here on my lifting body....SHE FLIES!!! I am painting it now, hope to have some pictures later this week. For anyone who tries this one, I used the recommended 9 BB's in the nose and she flies pretty good on the hand tosses...just a neat kit all around with endless possibilities for a paint scheme.
 
thanks Wes!! I am having a lot of fun with this build...I am taking my time with it...I am putting decals on the orbiter now..I am going for a 60's retro look up here...I will post pictures shortly.... to anyone that has looked at this kit...if you look again you won;t be disappointed...it is really a fun build!!

Dr.Zooch said:
Dude, you told me what you had in mind for the booster... but I had NO IDEA it was gonna look this cool! That is simply wild!!!
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OK...making progress on the Lifting Body....here are a couple pics of the orbiter...nothing like a good old school hobby shop...was able to pick up three sheets of old decals for less than $10...I went between decal sheets for an F-4 and a T-33/F-86 sheet...I cut the canopy from a solid light blue sheet of decal...I was trying to make it look like the old F-102's canopy...kinda has the same pointed shape as the orbiter..close enough! (I always liked the old F-102...the Deuce!!) I like the dayglo...I used Krylon short cuts Glo Orange...small can I picked up at Michael's....the paint is very grainy but it was all I could find that had the same dayglo effect

100_2540a.jpg100_2542a.jpg100_2543a.jpg
 
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Thanks Luke!! I can't wait to fly her....I have some small stuff to do to complete her...flames fins have to be painted and stuff....you had a great build thread on this kit that was a HUGE help!!! I can't say it enough...justa big help...I really liked your "Thor" modification you did on the booster...that is where I got the idea to try a Titan II....I was trying to go with a 60's throw back type of look with DayGlo and I went with an AirForce theme because my dad was in the airforce ....I did have a problem with the decals..the decals used are old ones that I found in the back of a local hobby shop....I have no idea how old they are...but I bet they are at least 15-20 years old...they have been setting in the back of shop for years...I needed some small stuff to finish it up....the ejection seat warnings and that kind of stuff....regardless, I put a light coat of Krylon Krystal clear on them to set them up so they wouldn't disentegrate when put in water....about half of the decals got deformed by the Krylon..I am afraid to put another coat on them now that they are on the orbiter....I am afraid they will go haywire..so this puppy is flying the way she looks! I made some of the decals myself...the X-49 is in reference to my age...LOL...OK...not that bright up here....but the USAF stuff I made up here with my printer...I have to say that this is really a fun kit to build!

luke strawwalker said:
WOW Rick, just WOW!!!! That looks amazing! EXTREMELY COOL...

Very Dyna-Soar-ish!

Later! OL JR :)
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NJRick said:
Thanks Luke!! I can't wait to fly her....I have some small stuff to do to complete her...flames fins have to be painted and stuff....you had a great build thread on this kit that was a HUGE help!!! I can't say it enough...justa big help...I really liked your "Thor" modification you did on the booster...that is where I got the idea to try a Titan II....I was trying to go with a 60's throw back type of look with DayGlo and I went with an AirForce theme because my dad was in the airforce ....I did have a problem with the decals..the decals used are old ones that I found in the back of a local hobby shop....I have no idea how old they are...but I bet they are at least 15-20 years old...they have been setting in the back of shop for years...I needed some small stuff to finish it up....the ejection seat warnings and that kind of stuff....regardless, I put a light coat of Krylon Krystal clear on them to set them up so they wouldn't disentegrate when put in water....about half of the decals got deformed by the Krylon..I am afraid to put another coat on them now that they are on the orbiter....I am afraid they will go haywire..so this puppy is flying the way she looks! I made some of the decals myself...the X-49 is in reference to my age...LOL...OK...not that bright up here....but the USAF stuff I made up here with my printer...I have to say that this is really a fun kit to build!
Click to expand...

Sounds like you might have gone a little heavy on the clear... it'll go wonky on you bigtime if you go too heavy with clear, on pretty much anything, but especially decals and wraps...

I LOVE the look of it... it just SO pops! When I get back home, I may have to break out the patterns again and do a Soviet glider version just so we can have a Cold War balance of terror... (or fun anyway!)

SO I take it this is the photoreconnaissance version?? We'll probably be sending you on a mission to follow up our Discoverer Thor photoreconnaissance run with a low-altitude atmospheric skip recon run to get better pictures of their missile sites. https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showpost.php?p=560661&postcount=3 :cool::lol:

Later! OL JR :)

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=46511&highlight=missile+crisis
 
Thanks Luke!!...I think it looks cool and I am happy with the way it turned out...what was neat about this kit is that there is no correct paint scheme...you can pretty much do what you want...as you said on your build thread...its a blank slate so you can kinda let your imagination run with it...I was debating making the booster a Polaris A-3 missile...the booster tank in this kit is pretty much the same shape as the later versions of the Polaris...little masking tape work and you could make the black and white striped nose cone with some black script lettering spelling P-O-L-A-R-I-S down the sides if you wanted to make a Navy version...what I thought would be neat would be to make an all blue orbiter...Blue Angel Blue that is...and make the orbiter the ultimate Blue Angel...I am pretty certain that Scalemaster used to make Blue Angel decals and I would think 1/72nd scale would be pretty close to scale with this..that would be cool too I thought...is it based in reality? nope...but with this kit...you can do what you want! but I decided to go with an Airforce vehicle ... my Dad was in the Airforce back during the Korean War and I always thought the Titan II was cool looking and I always thought that the Gemini Titan was a cool looking booster with the blue capsule, the silver booster with the huge black and white roll patterns...its colorful and beautiful...and heck...earth to orbit in 5.5 minutes is really hauling the mail!!! :y:

I think you may be right..I probably did go too heavy with the clear coat...at this point, I am afraid to try any additional clear coats..I don't know if I weakened the old decals or not....but on this orbiter are decals from an F-4, a T-33 and an F-86...LOL....its all Airforce all right!

If I were to build her again in this version I would rotate the engine clip so that the Titan's engines were at 90 degree angles from the SRB's....kinda rotate the engine clip in between the SRB and the Titan's engines...I didn't think that part through enough but it's functional as she is built now..I have test fit an engine in and it all fits..I used some spare H-1 engines that Wes has in his Saturn 1b...close enough for this build! (you can never have enough of Dr. Zooch's Saturn 1bs ya know!! :D)

and yes...this will be the recon version of the X-49 :dark: it has sophisticated surveillance equipment in it's payload bay. (loved your old recon photo post!) would be neat to see a Soviet version!

luke strawwalker said:
Sounds like you might have gone a little heavy on the clear... it'll go wonky on you bigtime if you go too heavy with clear, on pretty much anything, but especially decals and wraps...

I LOVE the look of it... it just SO pops! When I get back home, I may have to break out the patterns again and do a Soviet glider version just so we can have a Cold War balance of terror... (or fun anyway!)

SO I take it this is the photoreconnaissance version?? We'll probably be sending you on a mission to follow up our Discoverer Thor photoreconnaissance run with a low-altitude atmospheric skip recon run to get better pictures of their missile sites. https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showpost.php?p=560661&postcount=3 :cool::lol:

Later! OL JR :)

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=46511&highlight=missile+crisis
Click to expand...
 
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Dr. Zooch is correct....I did make modifications to his design by way Titan engines on the booster and decals etc....still...this kit is AWESOME! and it is highly recommended!!!!!

as to any commentary about being a skilled builder...lets see if she flies first!! :eyeroll: wish me luck!

Dr.Zooch said:
I hope that no one reading this thinks that the kit is supposed to come out looking like this.

THIS IS HIGHLY MODIFIED by a highly skilled builder.... the stock kit will not come out like this.

Still- it is WAY cool.
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couple of final shots....I enjoyed this kit so much..I just ordered another one...this is a fun build! can't wait to fly her!

100_2680a.jpg100_2681a.jpg100_2683a.jpg
 
hey Luke! thanks...the flame fins I shoot them all white to start...then just feather in yellow at approx the half way point on the fin and then try to hit the tips with with a bright orange or red.

as for the next Lifting Body kit...I am pretty sure I know what I want to do with her...its time for a Navy variant...I want to try the Polaris A3 as the booster. I think I can do that striped nose cone. It will be tough, but I think I can do it...as for the orbiter....if I can do it correctly...it will old school and really cool!!

I have to say...of all the Dr. Zooch kits I have built..I think this kit is one of my favorites. I really enjoyed this one. There is just so much you can do with it!

luke strawwalker said:
Love your flame fins as well... how'd you do the paint job on them??

What are your plans for the second kit?? Hints?? :)

KUTGW!!! OL JR :)
Click to expand...
 
NJRick said:
hey Luke! thanks...the flame fins I shoot them all white to start...then just feather in yellow at approx the half way point on the fin and then try to hit the tips with with a bright orange or red.

as for the next Lifting Body kit...I am pretty sure I know what I want to do with her...its time for a Navy variant...I want to try the Polaris A3 as the booster. I think I can do that striped nose cone. It will be tough, but I think I can do it...as for the orbiter....if I can do it correctly...it will old school and really cool!!

I have to say...of all the Dr. Zooch kits I have built..I think this kit is one of my favorites. I really enjoyed this one. There is just so much you can do with it!
Click to expand...

Here ya go...

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=46230&highlight=Kriegsmarine+V-2

Later! OL JR :)
 
Look what came in the mail!! :grin:

100_2688a.jpg

can't think of a better way to ride out Hurricane Sandy!! (which is coming straight at New Jersey unfortunately....hope it turns out towards the sea for us)
 
trying to replicate the Polaris A3 nose cone....what do you think? its tough to get the proper shape...but I think its acceptable..

100_2702a.jpg100_2703a.jpg
 
NJRick said:
trying to replicate the Polaris A3 nose cone....what do you think? its tough to get the proper shape...but I think its acceptable..

View attachment 103174View attachment 103175
Click to expand...

Looks good...

When I did the "Kriegsmarine V-2" that I posted links to above, I went with the 4 black and 4 white stripes, each 1/8 the circumference of the body tube in width, but the way you've done it here is probably more accurate. Plus, the stupid scotch tape I used to mask them off took the underlying white paint off the primer on the white stripes, meaning I had to re-mask and re-shoot the white stripes, which kinda screwed up the works.

Masking and painting on a compound curve is never easy...

KUTGW!!! OL JR :)
 
thanks Luke....I agree, it is difficult to get it right...basically I did what you did but instead of painting, I used a solid sheet of black decal applied over the painted white nose cone...its kinda 6 of one and half dozen of the other...masking the curve is a bear and getting the decal to lay smoothly over the curve of the nose cone is hard too...kinda tough to get it just right...I have some small touch up to do on the tip of the nose, but it's close enough for this build!

luke strawwalker said:
Looks good...

When I did the "Kriegsmarine V-2" that I posted links to above, I went with the 4 black and 4 white stripes, each 1/8 the circumference of the body tube in width, but the way you've done it here is probably more accurate. Plus, the stupid scotch tape I used to mask them off took the underlying white paint off the primer on the white stripes, meaning I had to re-mask and re-shoot the white stripes, which kinda screwed up the works.

Masking and painting on a compound curve is never easy...

KUTGW!!! OL JR :)
Click to expand...
 
NJRick said:
thanks Luke....I agree, it is difficult to get it right...basically I did what you did but instead of painting, I used a solid sheet of black decal applied over the painted white nose cone...its kinda 6 of one and half dozen of the other...masking the curve is a bear and getting the decal to lay smoothly over the curve of the nose cone is hard too...kinda tough to get it just right...I have some small touch up to do on the tip of the nose, but it's close enough for this build!
Click to expand...

Trim monokote, or something else?? Looks good, whatever it is... I was kinda wondering if it were a decal of some type...

At this size, especially, it's not going to be perfect... and that looks darn close!

Later and KUTGW!!! OL JR :)
 
its regular decal....its a sheet of solid black decal by Aero Master....its actually called canopy trim....I bought it on line from Squadron (down in Texas)...for roll bands and stuff, its ideal...and it cost $2.70 a sheet. I will try to put the roll bands on the Polaris booster either tonight or tomorrow if I can.

luke strawwalker said:
Trim monokote, or something else?? Looks good, whatever it is... I was kinda wondering if it were a decal of some type...

At this size, especially, it's not going to be perfect... and that looks darn close!

Later and KUTGW!!! OL JR :)
Click to expand...
 
NJRick said:
its regular decal....its a sheet of solid black decal by Aero Master....its actually called canopy trim....I bought it on line from Squadron (down in Texas)...for roll bands and stuff, its ideal...and it cost $2.70 a sheet. I will try to put the roll bands on the Polaris booster either tonight or tomorrow if I can.
Click to expand...

Cool... got a link??

Later! OL JR :)
 

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