Attaching smoke bombs?

I have done 4 launches on my golf course (par 5 fairway) and lost 3 rockets cause we cant follow them with the wind. Has anyone tried somehow attaching smoke bombs to the rocket and lighting them right before launch so you could find the rocket? I would think their would be something out there designed specifically for rockets to give them more smoke (especially on descent).

Thanks

Sloanhaus

That actually sounds like it might work...(if it could be safe(which it couldn't be))
(Don't mention me in court)
But, I don't recommend it.
I don't think anything with "bomb" in it should be attached to a rocket.
You might want to get yourself a larger launch field, or put smaller engines in your rockets. If you can't find larger field to launch at, you could join a near by NAR or TRA section. Welcome to the forum!

P.S. Post pictures of your rockets! We like to see them!

I am actually talking about the little red, yellow, and blue smoke balls you get at your local fireworks store. They put off a little flame in the beginning but than they smoke for a good minute or so. I was thinking of adding a fireproof leader to the rocket and having it hang 2 inches off the rocket. This is just a cheep rocket from toys r us.

eggplant said:

That actually sounds like it might work...
(Don't mention me in court)
But, I don't recommend it.
I don't think anything with "bomb" in it should be attached to a rocket.
You might want to get yourself a larger launch field, or put smaller engines in your rockets. If you can't find larger field to launch at, you could join a near by NAR or TRA section. Welcome to the forum!

P.S. Post pictures of your rockets! We like to see them!

Click to expand...

Model/amateur rocketry is NOT about fireworks.

The NAR (National Association of Rocketry) code is quite specific in this regard.

Setting a field on fire will most likely kill any rocketry launches in your neck of the woods while doing a lot of harm to the hobby in general. There could be fines and such as well. Fire Marshalls tend to take a dim view of this kind of thing.

Attaching smoke bombs to a rocket is a Bad Idea [tm].

Don't be "that guy", mmmmkay?

A smoke bomb is ignited just as a rocket is, once the smoke starts there is no fire involved, the components just smoke. I can take a smoke bomb after it starts smoking and hold it in my hand or put it in a pile of leaves/pine straw and it wont ignite anything. The only fire is when you light the fuse. I appreciate your concern for the hobby, I am just wanting to be able to see the rocket better.

o1d_dude said:

Model/amateur rocketry is NOT about fireworks.

The NAR (National Association of Rocketry) code is quite specific in this regard.

Setting a field on fire will most likely kill any rocketry launches in your neck of the woods while doing a lot of harm to the hobby in general. There could be fines and such as well. Fire Marshalls tend to take a dim view of this kind of thing.

Attaching smoke bombs to a rocket is a Bad Idea [tm].

Don't be "that guy", mmmmkay?

Click to expand...

Sloanhaus said:

I have done 4 launches on my golf course (par 5 fairway) and lost 3 rockets cause we cant follow them with the wind. Has anyone tried somehow attaching smoke bombs to the rocket and lighting them right before launch so you could find the rocket? I would think their would be something out there designed specifically for rockets to give them more smoke (especially on descent).

Click to expand...

Tracking smoke has merits. It's built into most rocket motors, for example. But a smoke bomb does put out flame and thus could start a fire if it's still burning at touchdown.

Plus, since it is a firework (even if it's not the pop/bang type) it turns your model rocket into a firework thus potentially violating the law.

So, while I appreciate your predicament, I'm afraid you're gonna get lots of recommendations to not do it.

Doug

.

I understand completely, the fire from a smoke bomb is only a couple of seconds and I would have this take place before I launch the rocket. The only thing coming out would be smoke. Again, after a couple of seconds, you can hold a smoke bomb in your hand, only smoke is coming out.

plano-doug said:

Tracking smoke has merits. It's built into most rocket motors, for example. But a smoke bomb does put out flame and thus could start a fire if it's still burning at touchdown.

Plus, since it is a firework (even if it's not the pop/bang type) it turns your model rocket into a firework thus potentially violating the law.

So, while I appreciate your predicament, I'm afraid you're gonna get lots of recommendations to not do it.

Doug

.

Click to expand...

It might help us, to best help you, for you to state what make/model of rocket (e.g., Estes Code Red) and what kind of motor (Estes B6-4, C6-7). That gives us an idea of where adjustments can be made.

Greg

I have the code red and also the Athena. I have B6-4 and C6-7. I recovered one of my shoots using the B6-4 but lost 2 using the C6-7 (just too high)

I just think it would be cool to have that space shuttle smoke going up, and a nice trail going down so that I can find it.

GregGleason said:

It might help us, to best help you, for you to state what make/model of rocket (e.g., Estes Code Red) and what kind of motor (Estes B6-4, C6-7). That gives us an idea of where adjustments can be made.

Greg

Click to expand...

On the 4th, i have put smoke "balls" on my rockets... just for fun, - the generally made my rockets very unstable and unsafe.* they just didnt fly right * Made for some neat core samples...

If the smoke is being generated, there is combustion occuring... that means anything that comes in contact with that stream of gas, will also catch fire.=its probably at least 1,100 degrees... the temperature of the gass is whats the worry. not the temperature of the ball.

So, if it is still emitting smoke while landing, you need something to stop the grass or house fire...


Simply put, just dont do it...
go buy a 10' long mylar streamer, it will sparkle and flutter, and be easy to locate....

Go to local home improvement store and buy a bottle of colored chalk that is used in construction for chalk lines. Install your parachute as you normally would, but right before you put the nosecone on, squirt a bit in. Now, when the parachute ejects, you get a big cloud of colored dust and often that is enough to help you follow the rocket. Add a 4 ft long piece of 'caution tape' or similar from the same store you got the chalk from to make it even easier to follow.

Installing a smoke bomb or similar charge is clearly against the rules.

Sandy.

Fireworks smoke bombs are a "hot smoke" version of a smoke generator and a fire risk. They shouldn't be used on model rockets.

A better solution is the Pratt Micro Beacon which will make locating your rockets MUCH easier.

-Kevin

Sloanhaus said:

I have the code red and also the Athena. I have B6-4 and C6-7. I recovered one of my shoots using the B6-4 but lost 2 using the C6-7 (just too high)

I just think it would be cool to have that space shuttle smoke going up, and a nice trail going down so that I can find it.

Click to expand...

(most smoke generators) = dont make enough smoke to leave a = trail = of smoke. They may leave a thin whispy colorful line, but isnt seen above a hundred feet or so...

Been there done that....

Sloanhaus said:

Again, after a couple of seconds, you can hold a smoke bomb in your hand, only smoke is coming out.

Click to expand...

The last smoke bombs I played with (many years ago) still had a flame hidden in that smoke. If the smoke opening got close enough to something flammable, it would set it off.

Now, if today's smoke bombs have cold smoke coming out, I wouldn't be too concerned. But from my albeit dated experience, they're still a good potential fire starter.

While the body of your smoke bomb may be cool enough to hold in your hand, how's the temperature at the opening? Can you put your finger over it?

One last thought: 99% of the time, that smoke bomb in your hand won't hurt you. But, just like model rocket motors, every once in a while, something goes haywire. I wouldn't want you to lose a finger or hand. So please don't hold them in your hand while they're burning.

Doug

.

Thanks all, I will add a streamer and hope that will help. I am surprised that a engine hasnt been made that emits more smoke. thanks again for your help and steering me in the right direction.

A Code Red on a florescent streamer will help you in two ways:

1. Faster descent, but that's ok since you're landing on a soft, golf course

2. A color that is very different than that of the surrounding foliage

A B6-4 is the biggest motor you would want to fly on your range for a reasonable recovery. Also, you can put a washer or two on the nose cone base to add some mass, so it will give the altitude a bit of a "hair cut".

Greg

I have attached smoke balls to some of my rockets, using exhaust of the rocket motor to light the fuse. It really does not make enough smoke to track it in most conditions.

You mean to tell me that when it landed it didnt help you see where it landed at. those balls put out a lot of smoke?

n3tjm said:

I have attached smoke balls to some of my rockets, using exhaust of the rocket motor to light the fuse. It really does not make enough smoke to track it in most conditions.

Click to expand...

I used a 5 min. smoke generator on a high alt flight. I totally lost track of the rocket at motor burn out. then about a min later (at least 2 miles high) Smoke trail.. it looked like a tiny line.

it smoked til it hit the ground, a mile and a half away... and could walk right to the smoke.. PERFECT application. so yrs it works, but you have to have the right rocket and smoke generator..

it was a 4" polecat goblin on a 98mm K1999 warp nine

Sloanhaus said:

You mean to tell me that when it landed it didnt help you see where it landed at. those balls put out a lot of smoke?

Click to expand...

They put out smoke for about 10 seconds. They all burned out long before the rockets landed.

Fireworks attached to model rockets sounds like a good way to get on the evening news. Bad idea man.

Instead try 5 feet of highly reflective mylar streamer. It should show up very well in the sky and on the ground.

somewhere on rocstock.org there was a story about locals finding long drifted rockets and trying to take them.

one story in particular is of interest to this thread

it was about a guy with a gps tracker on his rocket. they follow it to a guy's house. by the way, ROC launches in a lakebed, and the flights have to be pretty high/in a lot of wind to drift far enough. well they ask the guy if he found the rocket, he said no, and so the rocketeer pushed a button that released a smoke charge. i'm not sure what the smoke charge consisted of, nor what the cost of settting it up with the electronics was, but a good scoop of colored chalk dust would do just fine during ejection, or if you have dual deploy, both ejections

For tracking "smoke" you can use red, (or any bright color) chalk. the kind Carpenters use in chalklines. Pour a little into tube above wadding,just a tablespoon is plenty, then shake a little so chalk sticks to insides of tube. As rocket drifts/desends a visible colored smoketrail will flow out of the rocket. the colored dust will "trail" out for as long as rocket is drifting, longer than you'd think for small amount. The key is getting chalk too stick to the sides inside airframe. It's also non-flamable and wipes off easier than to lose rocket...try it and youll be suprised...

skyspike1 said:

For tracking "smoke" you can use red, (or any bright color) chalk. the kind Carpenters use in chalklines. Pour a little into tube above wadding,just a tablespoon is plenty, then shake a little so chalk sticks to insides of tube. As rocket drifts/desends a visible colored smoketrail will flow out of the rocket. the colored dust will "trail" out for as long as rocket is drifting, longer than you'd think for small amount. The key is getting chalk too stick to the sides inside airframe. It's also non-flamable and wipes off easier than to lose rocket...try it and youll be suprised...

Click to expand...

Chalk works good BUT marking chalk is a DYE, it will Stain your rocket. it does not just wipe off you have to put some elbow grease to get it off especially your chute and shock cords.

It works great, but be prepared for a mess.

stickershock23 said:

Chalk works good BUT marking chalk is a DYE, it will Stain your rocket. it does not just wipe off you have to put some elbow grease to get it off especially your chute and shock cords.

It works great, but be prepared for a mess.

Click to expand...

Ya think marking chalk is bad, try fluorescent fiberglass pigment powder! That stuff gets EVERYWHERE. But it is very lightweight and does make a very visible cloud. (I know, Stickershock - you quite likely have used glass pigment - this was a rhetorical statement! )

stickershock23 said:

Chalk works good BUT marking chalk is a DYE, it will Stain your rocket. it does not just wipe off you have to put some elbow grease to get it off especially your chute and shock cords.

It works great, but be prepared for a mess.

Click to expand...

of course the #1 dealer of asthetic rocketry components is the first to bring up the dirtiness of tracking chalk as long as it doesn't show up on the launch pad im happy

Adding tracking powder would help at ejection, but I think this guy is looking for a way to track during (and after) the full descent.

Sloan,

To do this "right" you probably need to look into tracking electronics. That may be a lot more cost/weight/complexity than you really need right now, but that is the normal way to tackle this problem.

Don't forget that you can remove the recovery system, leave your nose cone tethered to the rocket by a shock cord, and just let the pieces tumble down to the ground. They will fall faster than using a chute or streamer, and will drift less in the winds. They will also hit the ground a bit harder so make sure all your fins are glued on well.

On windy days at a small field you either 1) use smaller motors, 2) chase your rocket into the next county, 3) lose it completely, or 4) be responsible enough to make the decision not to launch (yeah, that really is an option).

Sorry that you lost a couple already but it sounds like you need to find either a bigger field, or a little patience?

BTW, if you want a little more tracking smoke during ascent, try the Quest motors. They produce significantly more smoke than Estes motors.

What you're running into is what's called "Flying the field".

If you only have enough space to fly B motors and recover them on the field, then you should fly B motors. If you keep losing rockets on C motors, then you probabaly don't want to be flying on C motors at that field.

kj

kjohnson said:

What you're running into is what's called "Flying the field".

If you only have enough space to fly B motors and recover them on the field, then you should fly B motors. If you keep losing rockets on C motors, then you probabaly don't want to be flying on C motors at that field.

kj

Click to expand...

Absolutely correct Kevin!
but that means the model rocketeer must "think" about what he's doing....we can't have that...much better to try attaching HOT buring smoke bombs to eliminate the hobby altogether.

Fly the field Sloan! Add Tracking powder (Chalkline chalk cut 50/50 with Talc baby powder wipes right off), switch from Chutes to mylar Streamers to reduce the downrange drift..........don't screw it up for everyone else. Smoke bombs are a seriouly bad idea.

Sloanhaus said:

I have done 4 launches on my golf course (par 5 fairway) and lost 3 rockets cause we cant follow them with the wind. Has anyone tried somehow attaching smoke bombs to the rocket and lighting them right before launch so you could find the rocket? I would think their would be something out there designed specifically for rockets to give them more smoke (especially on descent).

Thanks

Sloanhaus

Click to expand...

Years ago I tried a flameless smoke generator. Basically the chute line pulled two cotton swabs, held closely together, out of isolating plastic tubes. One swab had HCl solution; the other was ammonia. The gasses from the two solutions on the exposed swabs made NH4Cl smoke with no geat evolution of heat. The mechanics of the device worked well enough, but the amount of smoke was inadequate.

Another possibility is "Tickle" Smoke. Tickle is TiCl4, which reacts with moisture in air to produce TiO2 as dense white smoke. It's what the Nike Smoke used to carry. TiCl4 is borderline nasty, but it's used in skywriting and things like that. Once again, no flame.

Wikipedia has an article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_tetrachloride