has estes E9's replced D12's ?

Rocket_Man · Mar 31, 2011

back in the day D12's were what us crazy kids built everything around, but
today it seems the E9 is gaining in popularity. has the E9 pretty much replaced the D12 in popularity ?

shreadvector · Mar 31, 2011

The only way to answer that question would be to get the sales figures from Estes and compare them. The one that sells more is more popular.

Call them and ask them. If they give you an answer, you will have your answer.

I can provide two answers based upon the usual facts used on web forums to answer these types of questions.

Answer #1: No.

Answer #2: Yes.

Any other answers are just not accurate.

Rocket_Man · Mar 31, 2011

i was just asking if those inclined to launching D's were now preferring E's. I know as a kid i never built anything but D stuff and was thinking that instead of building for D's those folks were now using E's.

i know i would have built E's when i was a kid but dont think they were around
in 1974 ??? all we had access to were D's.

gpoehlein · Mar 31, 2011

I think it's less a matter of preferring to launch with E9s, and more a matter of building for flexibility. If you build a rocket with a 3.75" motor mount, you can fly both E9s and D12s (with a 1" adapter) in your rocket. On the other hand, if you put a 2.75" mount in the rocket, you can ONLY fly it on D12s (or, of course, C11s). So it makes sense to put the longer mount in rocket that you might want to fly on Es.

Also consider that, with the standard unmodified Estes 2.75" motor hook, you cannot fly Aerotech 24mm motors in the rocket - the top of the motor hook is too long and the Aerotech motor won't fit. However, an Aerotech motor WILL work with the orange spacer and a standard unmodified 3.75" motor hook - the ejection cap fits fine inside the spacer and the spacer engages the top of the motor hook. So if you build a model with a 2.75" motor mount and don't modify the motor hook (you need to remove about 1/8" or so of the top of the hook), you can't even fly Aerotech Ds and Es in the model.

So, I think it is more a matter of flexibility than any real preference for one over the other. BUT - that is only my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

shreadvector · Mar 31, 2011

Rocket_Man said:
i was just asking if those inclined to launching D's were now preferring E's. I know as a kid i never built anything but D stuff and was thinking that instead of building for D's those folks were now using E's.

i know i would have built E's when i was a kid but dont think they were around
in 1974 ??? all we had access to were D's.

There were plenty of FSI D, E and F motors throughout the 1970's.

Many people built their rockets for the larger diameter FSI motors - especially when the Maxi-Brutes came along. FSI even made conversion kits for those models.

As for current builders, many people simply use the longer E9 motor as the basis for their motor mount (put the block up higher and use the longer motor hook) and if they wish to fly with a D12 or C11 motor they insert a 1 inch spacer for that flight.

Those who simply wish to fly as high as possible would not use the E9 motor at all. They would use any of the 24mm diameter Aerotech motors such as the D12 sized E15 or E30 or E20 or the E9 sized F30 or F32. Or any of the reloadable motors in those sizes.

shreadvector · Mar 31, 2011

gpoehlein said:
I think it's less a matter of preferring to launch with E9s, and more a matter of building for flexibility. If you build a rocket with a 3.75" motor mount, you can fly both E9s and D12s (with a 1" adapter) in your rocket. On the other hand, if you put a 2.75" mount in the rocket, you can ONLY fly it on D12s (or, of course, C11s). So it makes sense to put the longer mount in rocket that you might want to fly on Es.

Also consider that, with the standard unmodified Estes 2.75" motor hook, you cannot fly Aerotech 24mm motors in the rocket - the top of the motor hook is too long and the Aerotech motor won't fit. However, an Aerotech motor WILL work with the orange spacer and a standard unmodified 3.75" motor hook - the ejection cap fits fine inside the spacer and the spacer engages the top of the motor hook. So if you build a model with a 2.75" motor mount and don't modify the motor hook (you need to remove about 1/8" or so of the top of the hook), you can't even fly Aerotech Ds and Es in the model.

So, I think it is more a matter of flexibility than any real preference for one over the other. BUT - that is only my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

ALL of the Aerotech 24mm single use motors will fit in an Estes rocket using the stock motor hook. You are thinking of the RMS motors only as the ones having a problem with the stock top end of the motor hook.

That is one reason for the mass marketed new Aerotech E20 motors.

Try them.
https://www.ehobbies.com/rocketry-rocket-motors-aerotech-single-use-motors.html

Captain Ron · Mar 31, 2011

And thats the only good reason why I built my "Cherokee-E" so I have the option of using either a E9 or a D12 with a spacer... best of both worlds I guess...
but in reality I'll be using C11 & D12's most of the time...

accooper · Mar 31, 2011

Please understand that the E9 is a pretty weak E. I have seen where a rocket that should fly easily on a E9 was just too much for it. The E9 should be used only in light rockets.

The D12 is a pretty good motor. the Aero-Tech D24 18mm reload. Now that is a real D!

Andrew

Micromeister · Mar 31, 2011

In a word HELL NO!
D12's are much more useful then the weak E9. I still burn more D12-0, 3,& 5 motors then any other standard size BP motor over a year (except MMX).

Sometimes I'll use a longer motor mount in Upscale clustered models just to give myself the option of adding E9's to the mix for fun but they are simply too weak at ignition for most clustered models, don't have nearly as much lifting thrust to do much of anything in single motor models...Personally they are pretty much useless unless the rocket is designed specifically around the puny long burn thrust. And don't get me started on the to added expense.

JPVegh · Mar 31, 2011

You can have my D12 when you pry it from my cold dead fingers!

E9, meh!

gpoehlein · Mar 31, 2011

shreadvector said:
ALL of the Aerotech 24mm single use motors will fit in an Estes rocket using the stock motor hook. You are thinking of the RMS motors only as the ones having a problem with the stock top end of the motor hook.

That is one reason for the mass marketed new Aerotech E20 motors.

Try them.
https://www.ehobbies.com/rocketry-rocket-motors-aerotech-single-use-motors.html

OK - I stand corrected - I've never used the single use motors, only the RMS casing.

gpoehlein · Mar 31, 2011

Micromeister said:
In a word HELL NO!
D12's are much more useful then the weak E9. I still burn more D12-0, 3,& 5 motors then any other standard size BP motor over a year (except MMX).

Sometimes I'll use a longer motor mount in Upscale clustered models just to give myself the option of adding E9's to the mix for fun but they are simply too weak at ignition for most clustered models, don't have nearly as much lifting thrust to do much of anything in single motor models...Personally they are pretty much useless unless the rocket is designed specifically around the puny long burn thrust. And don't get me started on the to added expense.

Yeah, but three E9s in a modified Big Daddy ARE a lot of fun!

plano-doug · Mar 31, 2011

gpoehlein said:
Yeah, but three E9s in a modified Big Daddy ARE a lot of fun!

It's funny. This must be the most hated motor in rocket history. I fly them often enough without problems. I use them in Big Berthas, as the upper stage in my Big Betty, as the center motor in my clustered Super Big Bertha plus several other rockets. The only problem I ever had, as I recall, was the upper stage didn't light on one rocket, which has nothing to do with the motor's thrust profile.

The key is that I never used it where it wasn't suitable - it's not an E30 or E40, and it can't lift heavier rockets. I suspect the biggest problem is that it is recommended for some kits where it's marginal (eg, Maxi Brute V-2). But it has plenty of thrust for most model rockets. It still has higher average thrust than any other current production Estes motors except the D11 & D12. So there are plenty of model rockets which will work just fine with it.

It gives a Big Bertha a great ride. And it was awesome in the sustainer of my 3-stage Tuber.

Doug

.

GregGleason · Mar 31, 2011

The problem with the E9 is it's assumed, by those not familiar with thrust curves, that they have more thrust because they are physically bigger.

The nice thing about the D12 in opposition to the E9 is that it has about 54% more peak thrust with about 30% less motor mass. Then there is the cost/motor factor, too.

Greg

MtrCompare_D12.ES_E9.ES_C11.ES_C6.ES.jpg

cjl · Mar 31, 2011

The E9 is an excellent motor. I love the long burn, and it pushes quite a few rockets substantially higher than the D12 can manage. It definitely doesn't replace the D12 though - it supplements it. It adds additional options for pushing rockets higher. It can't actually lift heavier rockets, despite the larger total impulse, but it does increase the options for 24mm rockets, which is never a bad thing.

KarlS · Apr 2, 2011

I have converted several models from D's to E's including the "Blue Ninja" and "Storm Caster" and on the E they really fly great.

But I still have the option of flying on the D or even C-11 for very windy days.

Rocket_Man · Apr 3, 2011

i am using E9's in sport rockets and am losing sight of them. from what i see they are at the sick end for us paper rocket guys, they just go so high for the fields i am using. i launch at a 1/4 X 1/2 mile field and with the wind I am using the entire field.

Zeus-cat · Apr 9, 2011

The E9 will never replace the D12; they don't do the same things. The D12 is for "heavy" lifting and the E9 is light loads. Both great motors, but like all rocket motors they need to be matched to the rocket for good results.

chadrog · Apr 9, 2011

There's a good use for every motor. Sorry, it's un-edited.
https://youtu.be/ecTbL1ARRHM

MarkII · Apr 9, 2011

I love Estes E9s, but I use far more D12s in my launching. I can use them in a wider variety of rockets and they are also easier to obtain. (Available from more sources, and unlike the E9s, the D12s don't incur hazmat shipping charges if they are ordered online.) In my rockets that can use them, Estes E9s produce spectacular flights, though, so it's really a matter of choosing the appropriate motor for the rocket. I readily use both types, as well as boatloads of Estes C11s, too.

Marc_G · Apr 11, 2011

chadrog said:
There's a good use for every motor. Sorry, it's un-edited.
https://youtu.be/ecTbL1ARRHM

Interesting "field" you are flying there!

has estes E9's replced D12's ?

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