Fiberglass or Paper Tube??

[Horizon]

Hello All,

I have found several great ideas here at TRF - so thanks to all.

I took the opportunity to buy some fiberglass kits during the Black Saturday sale (thanks Wildman!).

My question is this:

The fiberglass kits look to be very "easy" (if you will) to put together compared to the "paper tube" kits.

On the "paper tube" kits, you add the fiber glass, fill, several iterations of paint and sanding, etc.

Will fiberglass kits be the preferred kit of the future? It appears they are a little more expensive, but they could also be more durable and quicker to put together.

However, part of the (dare I say) "fun" of building a "paper tube" rocket is being able to take the time to go through all the steps and creating the rocket.

Just wondering what everyone thinks. Does it come down to $$ and personal preference?

Will there be a greater selection of all fiberglass high power kits coming from vendors?

Thanks for your input.

[COrocket]

I really like the fiberglass kits, but there is nothing wrong with the with a good phenolic/paper kit. You are correct that the fiberglass kits are "easier" to build...in that they usually don't need tube reinforcement or tip to tip on the fins, unless you are going for extreme flight profiles. There are some specific things that you need to do to fiberglass kits, like throughly roughing the areas to be bonded before applying epoxy. As for painting, I still like to apply primer, then sand, then apply the top coat to get a really nice finish. While the prep work on paper such as filling spirals is a bit more work, the painting is similar. As for the "fun" factor? I guess that depends on personal preference. I still enjoy putting fiberglass kits together, but I see your point. There are an increasing amount of fiberglass kits available, wildman and Madcow (off the top of my head) have been introducing new stuff recently. What rocket are you looking to build?

[cbrarick]

glass kits are also more durable and dropping them or having them bounce around in the car on the way to the field will only scratch paint...
on the other hand they are comparably heavier so you give up some performance

[bobkrech]

You also have to sand the surfaces you want to epoxy to roughen them. Epoxy makes a mechanical bond to the surface of fiberglass, so if the surface is not ruough, you will not get optimum bonding.

Bob

[ClayD]

You also have to sand the surfaces you want to epoxy to roughen them. Epoxy makes a mechanical bond to the surface of fiberglass, so if the surface is not ruough, you will not get optimum bonding.

Bob

you should already be doing this with phenolic paper tubes anyway! Also quantum tube must be "roughed" as well.


benifits to fiberglass.

1.you can take your rocket to the carwash.(bp residue inside the rocket easier to remove) plus if it was a little muddy at the field that day.

2. Helfer strong! you can stand on em! no sad frownies when something crinkles or cracks.(from normal handeling - still happens when your rocket cores or pancakes.

4. last two years, the kits in g10 and g12 have more than quadroupled in offering. likewise lowered in cost.

drawbacks...
1. $$$$ even in the bigger diameters a single 4' peice is over 200.000
(pretty much it.)

benifits to paper.
Lighter, cheaper, disposable rockets....
you can build 2:1 paper to fiberglass .

drawbacks
you have to build 2:1 paper to fiberglass to get the same number of life...

[Stymye]

Will fiberglass kits be the preferred kit of the future?

there have been FG and CF kits available for atleast 8-10 years now( since I rebar'd),there are just more of them now, the future is here

[Wiley]

In my opinion, FG airframe is cool, and cardboard stinks . Go with fiberglass. It is much more durable and easy to finish.

Of course, I don't buy fiberglass airframe, I tend to roll my own; this is one of the reasons that rocketry companies hate me .

[edwinshap1]

blue tube is the best of both worlds

nearly the durability of fiberglass, but way cheaper

[degreaser]

benifits to fiberglass.

1.you can take your rocket to the carwash.(bp residue inside the rocket easier to remove) plus if it was a little muddy at the field that day.

And you can throw Glocks in the dishwasher... (NOT!)

I'm enjoying my phenolic/fiberglass build and plan on doing more of the same albeit with much larger diameters, something that would be very expensive with a FG tube. I have a wildchild in the wings too.

[UPscaler]

I've got to say, I've built one fiberglass kit, and the second is currently under way. I really like how easy it is to go together. And since a lot of me is about the finish of a rocket, I LOVE how easy it is to paint fiberglass.


Braden

[english_1969]

I did my first all fiberglass build in the last month - a Formula 54 kit from performance rocketry.

Very easy to work with.

For the durability. Well, this past weekend, it's maiden flight was on an F24-7 (which i thought was an F24-3).

It flew to about 300 ft and the took a dive.

The nose cone buried to the point where I had to dig it out of the ground.

BUT - NO DAMAGE!

Packed it back up and flew it with a much better F52-5.

W

[ClayD]

And you can throw Glocks in the dishwasher... (NOT!)

I'm enjoying my phenolic/fiberglass build and plan on doing more of the same albeit with much larger diameters, something that would be very expensive with a FG tube. I have a wildchild in the wings too.

Yes, i am planning a 7.5 phenolic/kevlar/glass rocket for LDRS! all "my" rockets are like this (xcept the kevlar is a new step).
right now my airframe/composite cost is around 250.00 (that wouldnt buy me half what i need in G10.) and its fun to laminate...

But my son and wife both have Darkstars and darkstar extreme, (my sons has been "washed" . it works...(my wife is enjoying her build)

got two mini's on the - to order list , and cant wait.

i would wash my glock in a heartbeat! my LG jump drive is electronics and has survived at least 10 wash dry cycles...
(migt break my washer) ... But I am an M9 guy..


yes, finishing is way easier, most of my layup composite rockets take multiple coats of laquor primer to get smooth.. my sons darkstar, took 1 thin coat to get smooth, but the fillets had some airbubles i had to fill with epoxy pudy then a couple coats of primer.
(he is 5, so his paint job is - awesome, he loves it)

[degreaser]

Yes, i am planning a 7.5 phenolic/kevlar/glass rocket for LDRS! ...

yes, finishing is way easier, most of my layup composite rockets take multiple coats of laquor primer to get smooth.. my sons darkstar, took 1 thin coat to get smooth, but the fillets had some airbubles i had to fill with epoxy pudy then a couple coats of primer.
(he is 5, so his paint job is - awesome, he loves it)

I'd like to see the 7.5". What did you use for tubes?

I used epoxy/phenolic microballoons to fill in the texture of the fiberglass cloth on my first two HPRs. It sands pretty easily, doesn't weigh too much and gives a smooth finish. I'll definitely use it again.

Yeah doing the glassing yourself takes awhile but who's in a hurry? Getting there is half the fun.

Suggestion - build one (or more) of each.

[degreaser]

Of course, I don't buy fiberglass airframe, I tend to roll my own;

Care to elaborate?

[ClayD]

I'd like to see the 7.5". What did you use for tubes?

I used epoxy/phenolic microballoons to fill in the texture of the fiberglass cloth on my first two HPRs. It sands pretty easily, doesn't weigh too much and gives a smooth finish. I'll definitely use it again.

Yeah doing the glassing yourself takes awhile but who's in a hurry? Getting there is half the fun.

Suggestion - build one (or more) of each.

I just by the GLR or PML standard tube sizes, and lay up about 2 layers of glass. (this way couplers and nose cones are easy) for the 7.5 inch, ill make 2 with kevlar and 1 with glass or carbon, depending on the wallet.
I use the microballoons as well, they work great! but Laquor primer does the best to finish it off for making them baby smooth.
Ed Rowe made a rocket called "Spinal Tap" it's in the LDRS featured projects... I am basicaly going to copy cat! not the fin shape or qty... (im going with more conventional 3 fin.) but basically (3) 48" sections of 7.5" and a 6" motor mount.
Pluss I dont really have a P motor at the moment.... Heh.. so i have to adapt down to a 4"mmt and build a tailcone, so that an N3800 will fit.(i am going to make a short version to fly on the N.. 48"shorter....which is 43"-... 43motor, plus 6 coupler - 48... ooops...
I am getting my plans together, and will be buying things in the "near" future, the wife has "approved" the budget(well, i think she has..) so, my first order, will be to start the fincan. Going to by some GPS telemetry to go in, and some cd3 systems...plus a 24'main..(thats going to be fun)

[OverLord]

I did my first all fiberglass build in the last month - a Formula 54 kit from performance rocketry.

Very easy to work with.

I have never seen this kit...Any pics? Specs?

Mike

[OverLord]

I have never seen this kit...Any pics? Specs?

Mike

Never mind, I found one at Rocketry Warehouse...Never knew this animal existed...

[dlb]

Here's a good reason I like FG kit or parts.

Last week my 38mm MD rocket landed in a field that had a 10" deep small lake in the mid, and yes I landed right in the middle. The only thing I could see was the parachute on top the water, the rest was underwater for maybe a 1/2 hour. Pulled it out , dried it off and flew her 3 more times that day.

Can't do that with a paper or cardboard rocket!

[bandman444]

Can't do that with a paper or cardboard rocket!

Can't do it well...

[cbrarick]

That '54 is great to fly on a F39

rick

[edwinshap1]

Can't do it well...

gotta love the desert

[english_1969]

Never mind, I found one at Rocketry Warehouse...Never knew this animal existed...

I got it on sale over christmas for $39.00. I used CA and expanding foam for the fin attachment. ACME launch lugs, aeropack retainer. Comes in at 22oz.

Picture below....best I have right now as the launch pictures didn't quite work out....my 7 yrold sometimes just randomly takes pictures of everything but the rocket :-)

The rocket is the white and black one - the kid chooses the colors and paint schemes so they never come out like the stock pictures - it's beside a Madcow scooter.