3+ simultaneous 98mm projects...

bandman444 said:

You ARE cruel.

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I hear that all the time... :wink:

Actually, I reached the 5 picture limit and took a break to mow the lawn. And broke the lawn mower.

So, let's see, where were we. Oh, yes, the flight. The problem with a really long telephoto lens is that, when you are close to something, you can't pan out far enough to get it all in frame. The chutes unfurled and the rocket came by and landed in the field about 50 yards away, still pouring out tracking smoke. (Cesaroni must assume that most flights are airborne longer than mine are.) I was able to get a nice shot of the rocket, and then a nice shot of the parachute as it went by. EDIT - I finally got around to stitching them together with Photoshop.

The lander had a little issue with the deployment bag. I usually use Spherachutes in Giant Leap deployment bags, and have never had one get stuck. Unfortunately, since LDRS was only a week after ECOF, my three 192" Spherachutes were packed up in the triple deployment bag for my big Jayhawk, but left at home. But, hey, I've got this brand new TAC-3C just sitting here, and this is the exact parachute this bag was made for. What could go wrong?

Well, the drogue generates an amount of drag as a function of it's speed. Due to the way I packed it, the main came out feet first. When it got out far enough to taste the air, it opened up and started to generate it's own drag. Enough so that the drogue stopped pulling, which left the main halfway in the bag. With a little more altitude to work with, it might have shaken the rest of the bag off, but this was a pretty low deployment, and it came in pretty fast. To add insult to injury, she landed on the gravel runway - the closest thing to playa we have in Wisconsin. The good news is that the bungees did their job. In addition to pulling the legs down to extend them, the bungees stretch back out on ground contact to allow the legs to absorb some landing shock. The legs did crack on landing, but the capsule remained intact, undamaged, and upright.

The Vanessa Doofenshmirtz lander finally revealed to the judge. After removing the back-up ejection charge (whose wires were designed to break-away after capsule separation from booster via primary charge), she was allowed to open the capsule hatch and remove the occupants. Yup, Phineas and Ferb made the flight.

And last, but not least, is a link to a video of the flight, taken by friend and fellow WOOSH member Bill R.


The legs are being repaired and she will fly again. Hopefully at Midwest Power 9 in October. Maybe with some Halloween candy in the lander.

I would like to again thank all my fellow rocketeers that assisted in the design, build, launch, and recovery of this project. Many of the construction methods and techniques were taken directly off of prior builds in this forum. And obviously too big to have carried around solo, the WOOSH team stepped in to lug this thing on and off the range. Thank you. Sather

SMR said:

Legs installed, and raising her on the pad. Visible in the first photo, at the aft end of the forward body tube, are the 38mm motor tubes used as leg down-locks.

5... 4... 3... 2.... 1.... (indescribable roar follows.) I love the L3150 Vmax… when you need to lift a LOT of mass, but not very high (a priority at Bong). Side note - in Tim's last big sale, I also procured a bigger brother to that motor, the M4770 Vmax, for the 10" Jayhawk. (I had planned to fly her on Sunday at LDRS, but high winds scrubbed the launch. Soooooo, it's back on the schedule for the midwest's premier launch, MidWest Power 9.

The Modular Booster flew perfectly straight to just shy of a thousand feet. Another successful validation point for Rocsim. (The legs on the nose are de-stabilizing, but not enough to overcome those monster fins on the tail.) Apogee was sense by the first of two MAWD's, and 10 grams of BP sent the nose flying off, legs in tow and beginning to unfold.

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Did they ever come up with a solution to the 4770 cato problems?

maxvelocity said:

Did they ever come up with a solution to the 4770 cato problems?

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I hope so. Mine's a new one, so I guess we'll find out.

Amazing job on the lander, Sather. Looking forward to seeing it at MWP.

You should haul it out to a dry lakebed someday and try it with retro rockets on landing :horse:

daveyfire said:

You should haul it out to a dry lakebed someday and try it with retro rockets on landing

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It would require a slight mod to the lander to fit some motors, and some RC type mechanism to light 'em, but that would be so awesome!!

Just got back from Menard's, empty-handed. The sheets of 1/2" and 3/4" Baltic Birch they used to keep in stock are now "special order only", so I'll be racing against the clock to build new legs in time. (I should have glassed the last set.)

Back to work on the G-10 rockets. My universal altimeter sleds have 1/4" lugs at 2.00" and 2.75" centers, to fit the all-threads of my 4" and 5.5" avionics bays. The 4" bays use two all-threads with 2.00" centers, and my 5.5" bays use three with 2.75" centers. Since these rockets are a bit heavier, I plan on using four all-threads in the 5.5" bay, again with 2.75" centers. I looked at putting six in a hexagon pattern in the 7.5" bay, but with 2.75" centers, the holes came a little close to the edge. Five in a pentagon came out better. With any amount four or more, I have the option of using two sleds if needed.

Sorry... I've gotten behind a little on this thread. Eat Cheese or Fly was followed a week later by LDRS XXX, and I was a wreck for the few following weeks, getting everything put away and/or ready for MWP 9. Think I'm caught up enough now to post a few.

Still haven't received the Newton's 5.5" nose cone. After almost 3 years of delay for the Performance (white) glass Ogive version, I have switched my order to the (still not produced) filament wound Von Karman. (I really like the 4.0" and 6.0" versions I got from Tim for my Extreme and Ultimate Wildmen.)

Meanwhile, continuing work on the avionics bays. I cut out the patterns and taped them to assembled bulkheads, drilling right through them for all-threads and U-bolts. The primary reason I used multiples of 1/4"-20 instead of fewer 5/16" or larger, as mentioned, was to accommodate my universal altimeter sleds, which have lugs with 2" and 2.75" centers. A second bonus is that they spread the "snap" force over a larger area, rather than concentrate it at only two holes. (Except that the U-bolt still has only two holes. Eye-nuts on the all-threads would eliminate that weak link.) Attached photos show (1) drilling holes in the bulkheads, (2) drilling completed, (3) all-threads and U-bolt at the forward end of Pegasus' av bay, (4) the Stainless all-thread hanging free at the aft end of the bay, and (5) rough cut of the excess length of all-thread. To get a nice clean cut, I use a Dremel for the last cut. Unfortunately, the Dremel motor interferes with the long all-thread, keeping me from making a perpendicular cut at the right spot. So, I have to make a first cut about half an inch above the final. For that I used an air powered die-grinder with a cutting wheel, which makes quick work of the 1/4" all-thread.

Wow Sather, if you are planning on flying these at MWP9, I may have found someone as far behind as I am :eyepop:. You MADE MY DAY!

I'm gonna be struggling with my final four rockets to complete before MWP9 and flat tires on cars, issues with rental properties, client demands, et. al. aren't helping... Hopefully I can dodge the bullets :duck: over the next two weeks and get them done!

dixontj93060 said:

Wow Sather, if you are planning on flying these at MWP9, I may have found someone as far behind as I am :eyepop:. You MADE MY DAY!

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Oh, yes... I am always a little behind the timeline - this time a lot. These two G-10 rockets were actually intended to fly at LDRS! The nose cone delay would have scrubbed the 5.5", but the 7.5" would have been a possibility. If I had been better organized. When I see how easy it is to get behind time or over budget on sport rockets, it makes me appreciate the problems NASA has with their scratch-builds. And really appreciate what guys like Jim Jarvis and Derek DeVille have done.

My apologies for the lengthy delay in getting this uploaded, but here is the video from flight #1 of the 12" Modular Booster at WOOSH Eat Cheese or Fly in Aug 2011. I did not get the lander's legs rebuilt in time to fly again at MidWest Power, but I will work on them over the winter and she will she will definitely fly again at her next opportunity.

[YOUTUBE]wtwmiblEjWU[/YOUTUBE]

maxvelocity said:

Did they ever come up with a solution to the 4770 cato problems?

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Make sure to bond in the grains (as per instructions). Same as N5800.

Jeroen

dixontj93060 said:

Wow Sather, if you are planning on flying these at MWP9, I may have found someone as far behind as I am :eyepop:. You MADE MY DAY!

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Following the unpacking from MWP9, I took a few months to catch up on my Honey-Do list. These two G-10 projects were put on hold, but now the scramble is on to complete at least one for Thunderstruck.

I had ordered (and paid for) the nose cone for the 5.5" / 98mm Isaac Newton in 2009. The original order was for a Performance fiberglass (white) version. In 2011, I switched the order to the "soon to be made" filament wound (green) version. Last weekend, friend and fellow WOOSH member Ben W. and I made the sojourn to the Wildman's lair and picked up our Black Saturday orders. Included in 55,000 Ns of motors (photo #1) were my two 5.5" Von Karman nose cones. (One for the 5.5" / 75mm SM-3 Seahawk sustainer, the other for the 5.5" Newton.) And they were definitely worth the wait! Beautiful, smooth, perfectly round (unlike some molded fiberglass ones), and I especially like the aluminum tip. (side note - on a Cesaroni N5800, my modified Ultimate Wildman exceeded 1,600 miles per hour (2.1 Mach) with the 6" version of this nose cone, and still looks like brand new. I doubt a molded glass one would. Both of the shreds in the MWP9 N5800 drag race were rockets with molded fiberglass nose cones. I'm not implying a direct correlation, just making an observation.)

The new nose cone sits atop the motor section in photo #2. It won't fly in this configuration, but I like the look. Missing from this stack is the avionics bay and payload section (photo #3), which would not quite fit due to ceiling height. The avionics bay band and bulkheads are installed, and the payload bay is measured and marked for drilling the three static vents and six #10 tee-nuts.

Switching to the 7.5" Pegasus, her nose cone is, unfortunately, molded fiberglass (photo #4). I'll definitely be on the lookout for the filament-wound 7.5" Von Karman version to be made. (A nose cone is the easiest part to switch.) Photo #5 shows the 7.5" avionics bay bulkheads after installation of the large version of GaryT's most excellent Blast Caps. I used to make my caps and canisters from PVC, epoxy, hot glue and duct tape, a time-consuming process that looked bad, too. I was fortunate to have set up my base camp next to Chris (cjl) at LDRS XXX. I noticed he used Blastcaps on his 7.5" G-10 upscale Ultra Kraken. I thought they looked good, so I tried a set, putting them on Pandora, my 6" re-finned Ultimate Wildman, which flew in the N5800 drag race at MWP9. Not only did they look good, they worked good. Very easy to install, prep for flight, and clean afterwards. I just dunk the whole bulkhead into a tub of soapy water and scrub the BP residue off with a toothbrush... literally only took about a minute. Now I use them exclusively. Great product, Gary!

Wow, Sather nice motor stash!

dixontj93060 said:

Wow, Sather nice motor stash!

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Wow!

If you drilled a hole in the smoke grain as if you were drilling down the delay on a motor ejection motor, it would burn off the aft portion faster (coreburning) and have reduced tracking smoke burn time.

Dunno if that's technically allowed, though there's no reason that that should decertify the motor and no way they could really catch you if you did do it.

dixontj93060 said:

Wow Sather, if you are planning on flying these at MWP9, I may have found someone as far behind as I am :eyepop:. You MADE MY DAY!

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Well, then this should make your year! Yup, I have finally realized that, although I have claimed to be a multi-tasker, I am really only capable of focusing on one thing at a time. Yup, there I said it. Having multiple open projects does occasionally work out when, say, you have leftover epoxy on one and need to make fillets on another. Most of the time, however, they end up getting in each other's way, and I spend more time moving them around my limited workspace than actually working on them. MWP9 came and went, then MWPX. (Although during that time, in my defense, I was able to assemble an Ultimate Wildman AND a Gizmo XL for successful participation in the respective drag races.) So, back to the project(s) at hand. One of my New Year's goals is to be able to fly Pegasus, Isaac Newton, and the upscale Seahawk before the end of the year, so I need to get moving. On both the Newton and Pegasus, the motor sections are done and painted, the avionics bays are built, and the nose cones and payload bay tubes are cut. All that really remains is to put bulkheads in the nose cones, and to attach the payload tubes to the av bays. I prefer tee nuts to plastic rivets for that purpose, and have found that the relatively thin G-10 / G-12 coupler doesn't allow much thread in the tee nut when it is ground flush with the outside of the coupler. So to thicken up the area for the tee-nuts, I am glassing in strips of wood. When the tee nuts are installed flush to the inside of the wood strip, it will leave about 3/8" inch of thread, vs 1/10" of thread if installed in the G-10 alone.

Patience is a virtue.

Glad to see you posting again Sather!

SMR said:

I'll have to make a new altimeter sled for these two projects, as my current sled is designed for tether recoveries. For those, the avionics bay is built into the lower body, with the switches at the bottom to be accessed below the body joint. I have been able to use them for conventional dual deployment rockets, also, by drilling access holes through the motor section of the rocket body, to access the switch holes in the coupler sleeve of the av bay. I would prefer to not do to all my rockets in the future, though, so the next generation av sled will have switches in the middle to be accessed through holes in the avionics bay's band.

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This post is applicable to both active threads I am running, so it will appear in both. This week I am starting to put together my 3rd generation of avionics sleds. My current revision (#2) uses low-mounted POPO switches, and LOC 1/4" launch lugs for attachment to the all-threads. As mentioned previously, I am moving the POPO switches higher, to line up with the center band in my conventional av bays. And, while I haven't had a lug come off yet, I have noticed the insides are starting to fray from abrasion as they are put on and taken off the 1/4"-20 all-threads. So the next batch have a piece of angled aluminum at each end in lieu of the cardboard lugs. Rather than measure and mark each one individually, I made a quick jig out of some scrap 1/4" plywood. All I had to do then was mark the centerline of each board, hold the jig on, and transfer the two mounting holes to each piece of aluminum. I drilled a pilot hole first, using a small bit to get the best alignment possible, then increased a few bit sizes until the 17/64" final hole. Last picture shows one of the sleds trial fit on the all-threads of a 4" bay. Next up will be mounting the POPO switches, terminal strip, circuit boards stand-offs and battery box.

edit added... my original av bays had either 2" or 2.75" spacing of all-threads. (I couldn't make up my mind). So, the sleds had two sets of lugs, to accommodate either. I have since systematically retro-fitted all my bays to 2.75" spacing, which will make drilling alignment holes easier, as well as freeing up more acreage on the board.

A quick catch up with progress to date. The 7.5" Pegasus is mostly complete. Painted over the course of the summer, in conjunction with a few other projects, and some of the decals went on last night. (I plan on adding a matching gray roll stripe just aft of the nose cone. The nose cone will get painted matte black.) Avionics are still in process, although she could fly if needed on with one of my Gen 2 (MAWD, low POPO) sleds, the POPO access holes are oriented to better use the Gen 3's (SL 100, mid POPO) under construction now. The nose cone has been an issue - I purchased a 5:1 Ogive molded nosecone with the tubes (years ago), I have been holding out for the filament wound von Karman version, which IMHO would take the airloads better. I have added glass to the interior of the nose cone, and plan on foaming after adding the final weight to set the Cg. The plan is to fly her Sunday at MWP on either an N3180 Red or the O3400 Imax, depending on final weight and keeping her under the waiver.

Sorry to revive an old thread. Catching up on my to-do list and realize I never finished this thread... And since TRF doesn't let us edit our own threads anymore, it has to be a new post and not an addition to a prior one. Pegasus was finished and has flown several times, here on an N2000 White Lightning (my favorite propellant).

9 years later you finish your thread