New Wildman 38mm BlackHawk prototype....first look !

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Does the "Carbonite" have similar RF attenuation to carbon fiber?

Please remember this build thread was started in 2010.

The tubes are now thin wall black fiberglass, not Profusion [nicknamed Carbonite by me, or poor mans carbon Fiber...LOL] It did have different wind angles of the glass strands, making it a bit stronger than regular glass.
 
Do you have any pictures of your single break DD set up? Ive done it with a 54mm min diam and wanted to try it with a 38mm airframe.

Looking back I've done this with 3 38mm minimum diameter vehicles. First was my 38mm "Banshee". That incorporated a Raven2 + BRB 70cm transmitter + featherweight Mag switch. It's the one I took photos of but it's a bit embarrassing as I built it over 4 1/2 years ago and I've improved my techniques since then. Here are some photos though.

CfM4BkgHforFfA-9R0hZW3BvLEo7J1--nlfbF6sr_i954mnKMo4H2t02R70X3QeuTz_0c-W0RY9PHT6wQ-XUXUWyGaAxz088ordFzC8hjSVjgUBVVXCZnpCqNxDFUd6CkzzNOq4NP2w3UuhJAjWBQ6WvM90Ivktyu3vFsdIwtE4rgoQmtreOc2wmPe39c3lNT6QXNyMX2C0CFtu272-Hqecmcd70wC0-nDyCanK8VBiSJIhv1akEn_spL8ut4K1LLmaFlj5QAVJq2lK6rdm0VSf7FrmoZTv7gkBt2a4a1YmPD5DRAoXEU5OKm8xbiFjM1n3ceVX6rRrEARyOli4bEg7f0plCt78F9wnqa2uOnsFvMVY5UyZB94W3H4KTfkJeCrLsjVJTGx_ZVyL351rN6LH0Kay8jcarr8LFL1BBMCXxffU2a8y4SBhV08IUkwI5MXvsV1FAiJtafz_Tm1kIyrU0AeaskU7mTqI2p_proScSaidPchMdr7wKT85YEbOZL2Cp2tCqOghVIVqRz15M9wtvuqYucqBl7RhOelkeUw2tnvkfhsvt6MEDFRyQ-M_qoZ63pgDLvggYs7IMnxfgIaDS1sl2lzM1CKvyP4Bzuw=w618-h926-no


Yy43sDRfO59pTM8DbXv0NLqT3fa1IoxcD4E2JdCgXEQUcmXTD1IWE0ClCbMKnXqteEpt2ADBvhCCup_b77E14fxPW_62wXPULED7DUKku6MGF1vfUVT41hv7BypH3TkBCRXXobNw84B1XC23V6tDJEb89rczavZFJHAjCpiBna-u317MjtJBt_pQwlUFrP2VMhuJGJg2Agl-LPLJxhtzttuthwGze4CqfnjjoDFGin9hBlRJb8OjF3KQyZ8QtIhsD__dW1IdcsmqWKkymxHQGDNGl5_TMbqdoj7DuK6kvlWdJAOBGwqgHpfE6Lsb6zheRdkXmlP7Mi6AUkXLQhcaKcq_wmdYCykMkkY4QXWo24JOsy6QzZhuY7sM7-Mhkp72FrUrHgITcY_v7TZ5778oMapr4xg6l6bB5uabN6FXGlR52hCO1GaPX8oC69Z7w5C0OkKZky-7o35UB9CubnH9QAhFIeh7T0s0O-86YvJ5B_wknBwZY4DrggmAuTiKKYmwBP0oDh_trNoQuUB2How83gfiJ4fhSqUMcnW1l518bybOBB2EJ-JKT5Nw1OPYvCaZ8ANX89xPQwfKerJ84hc78gWsxdNJvbbEqtdpXLZ-xQ=w1000-h926-no


ClS-J3REdj_P82uKxjRQ8NDjuGHBGm9cAUVG2SEIossNWXpWZxLnCdSTJMbQEhehtJRzqsRWhiTtb7m0o0BFTmd0VP1CR2MS-hKjHfFEqFAAS_KOQoZaH-hgcrARP7fQ4mXfVg86JrftZB7K6ojmnwQ4S_V_yz0oqHAOTydz3ohroXoqGfr34dpwa59V8zhZJaQoSDbZraOV3FbKn15d_616vidHEZ6xhlkkRlACzy2gsT3wBW-OVA_urMkVUf5_ZYxAXKlpFy3_ww6BFkBdjgBlsDSLgqPDXmvW-xA-TFqhm5kp89nDxceMYNOWFV5D5YPbuCNTM7dLe7OuOYRUGUjlNbfDGrlwNOIL3ChRYkfhnSorW4d8HA0hrlgcnWkSVnX4oG0onGUxTonKvdRPzDx3J39aiCjFcsDl7H4jIbU1VOgRwFgKqV3auaMG3kjZ_-MaQ8h5svCUr8vP7ybe22QLNA0uaZTPNllnVe6A54pou91t4wJaVdybbtR2wosABC4Op27tltqd1O0Az0NnHadGr_j166cOs74OIMJ-wnpNKywafauu3h0lU1DQjQ_K8zNEy69AeZu7IuXsHnJ29FPPtxH17FR0UI4SwfTraA=w1000-h926-no


Next up I modified a Blackhawk 38 to be single break dual deploy and put my Telemetrum v1.2 in there. Granted I should mention that was a ShockWave 38mm 7:1 VK NC which to my knowledge are no longer available. Here's a shot of that rocket post flight at XPRS in 2013. IIRC I flew it on a J825R.

wyP_N29fP0w-VqVx2nsTqR7ovc6bJtehiZUAu_hD0W56yRR7tVtorw2CfO9IfTYn1QXoO299YKwFSlykOTK1BJYgK4Eq-baKQgsaEtmwyEce9MnhgmerFLTEKs3PetBvmATqi6S-TIMhDIqxlheA9Xu2FIYZIieBVLCrTmLipDoP9pH9I9YLvuGCZdJG32Kes1bxduo2143NsHgtHN6eBLEC3b-1CSPjJF3WhqFnKQIrb3ceFBAgWmxecjwf1185nV9l3-88dSzvlyiS91QFq60VGjgQEMmfwaAv-WiaRTU0QI805zEp_6b2telizGS8IeWeyc9ZyKWO0QGyrSgebEAU5t2hzK8YBuYzS2n-cncZnuKLbElnHjNCVMOtg7vEfbImuc6jQZAS6i57YHxxjiUM0jI9qUWv9YNNQgfc40QLCr7iV2Htkv0kYb16AqAa2rqZ4s8fXZr4GH0vzWzpgfk9Qw3GYo4ysGvFDZTGxKVSDaLq-G-SHpSrmegbUGZJhQpbVHHJus4d1DjPPsyS7U06U4TgA41tvnbeM7BpG8etAptiP-2Hw6q4Yqqr5a8hTawp-dukb4N2FrfQ4QxNltgcbuG3pPfUOa7Ppl4iEw=w1000-h926-no


Finally the last 38mm single break dual deploy minimum diameter flight I did was my 38s rocket. This flew at THUNDA 2015 on a J510 and reached 17,507 ft according to the TeleGPS onboard. It also carried a Raven2 onboard which was armed with a Featherweight screw switch. Here's a few photos of that vehicle.

maZEw5QHnFnJt8eSjTU8i6vkPcKaHe89r3p7eGF_Eu7bakT-235OulQSPeiW5-XOeJbT9Q2I3N0CH5wbT9-gjZA7ibv9avB81KRgR-DUUSjYNg_ucUiHI7niL8pRWn4QBKhQIOLkKo0g4vPxy-coiTRlBAMJDEFYL349vZsXOqmu-JPiwpvrgS7V_3DGhaGr37AXXV9KmSm2uuZz2D8_81xhPYsBsseow309vNheZEtEj6kZtI7XTO-ZOzkVUVUu1VdI-1-qtArA_69TRwnya37KwH4kgKCDDs_9zUmAAHJ2e5h90eO2ZnJxqPSJKkY3nyDWk1_3ZRkSChfHY-LCKGT2bGd4Dogwm9QS0GC3qFy76xE5hk-qKeY52bI6Fgn-7ZHZyGXqXtHCWlQAPv3CXNafTHx8SMp-AyejkppDzW9m16pnHXUv8T9JmThkUdZDYtmZJRLF-YeuDwHYWwKTNG0uRiHYBsXydppDGBUYf24BNuMRkVH1_pqlBTlt3KxFoF_Nu6pqir0tJ_DWRnGU66CeEd_5slhZ18bjSClaVXn1fbFNZ4JMaZpQcL2OgLnyAbxZR7tFlE3rUD365rMd4iDueRSHs2oTTQqpTjLlPog=w618-h926-no


FLEGjEv1VXrruRhQ3SWElvY7nW1oy7E69i80LSDp6xxdVbOOAglymclJ-AwnazqJlzlYO5NVgtZ_L7FwlBZn6H6KMXPO-6XDnlJkey59wDwmqsgio9RfnW0xIk_OVi0BrJaZwYy05Am9LSW9OREW4YVJjqf74kXmJ_f2Ul0IgajbGtN7vea_eB2KJbOhAVI1O2LQbryAUWViufqpuWNIYC-mszI_jRwYplVkaqWIP4qCPXuBreTI6Jqmb-BF7FP6Z2u7F4dEEgiYBIcnFI3TajZGSh6mXF-SyzSxwyPR2QgKCKeHQ_lsDGzgkupz67lZ_VW76ryS4LnRqtVWE35ULeNJwOU1ZTyooZRixO_WJKv58cvGEKKyUw6MBKXtqK2wDpQ1a9bj4hhALNggDkZR-tOGg41mCe9E6_60MWu5nZk875MSaMI3Xf2VbF4Evvw1GtzKdUEKE2IF0gAhECN_DwJNXiggrfEJz9I0h3HFPxMHt29JRDevfVunEIQ_L6Kw2GMX3l-eHBGd14pB-AhykJboD6cwRB3h7590c4mhG1ZNvWmrYMPHZRrSNcbKoOzJc8f0QPGPpi6oYMnKsPgaq7V69ycRyjrcQZoCw-_OJvo=w566-h926-no


yVOIzWXuq_5IxLsDEvCHNleduEvEleyT6mK_8H7HkN2UAQQGYgCIewvLHsmsICKFfT2yk77UygNb35vSDIyO9p_eY9yzAsfFzryeIq-sSgNYEAvnX7dIYkInF5QHSDRfy6ksSAPkDDN-KpboPHHu7NgSm3agVgd8L9EfUY5le_OpazmuJ0t5r-ChiEMLfsn1HMXhrePQCDG36oTtas6sBDEYoh9KSJNtferXgJ2JztGT5KnuinB1PED_YF3l50vXV7z78w7HEAnvKYnQhsUw8gQk071GPOOx9K7WNp6des8KnIXwP0uNDNTmOVuIWzaAgdC0VsDBZ6ncFbF2OWecd5JFKJcoLAr6nP1FsvKH8CusLdiyutF2P7EhnGc4Yuyh-8m7CHwX4zCiMy4R8pFrce6zZ3gTQBpM70D9a5dyjhUAYp3Wyvm2c5jysB099cIlr4aMcoI0_lpqIjuZR3mocLgNmzB0W8W4_YUoAVPGh2rM8Jy_us4KRFUW6cOvJs2bGVow73-226HCsKnHsFz6p3jhTSNlBdg40qN9F2WXDRjNl3JKbJEzE_JR7FDpnAWAZVKzqhtwA7Gb15LgkmHvFa7IjUMq3hASJn7BS9ncAAk=w695-h926-no


The motor overhang was purposeful to use for staging. I attempted to fly it as a sustainer on a 54mm to 38mm single break dual deploy two stage stack (I called it SpeedStack). A thread on that can be found here. Sadly my first attempt the sustainer didn't light and the second attempt it did and I lost both booster and sustainer.

https://forum.ausrocketry.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5002
 
Not so much for the build, basically the same. Since the kit comes with NC bulkplate now, I would make a GPS/tracker bay in NC.

Since there are now 'fly-away' rail guides, wouldn't bother with rail buttons or guides.

If I were just sport flying, leave length alone. If going for altitude...would cut as much off airframes as possible, friction fit motor [which I do anyway, no internal retention, and use forward closure on motor to attach recovery gear.

Anyone else, what would you do different now?


So I'm going the fly-away guide route, friction fitting motor, leaving length alone, but what forward closure would you recommend? I'm using some old Dr. Rocket hardware for the areotech reloads.... would I need to buy new hardware?

Thanks
Nate
 
What's your planned altimeter / recovery train? I'd use the tapped plugged forward in this case, but that's just a personal preference.
 
Before they made plugged/tapped closures, [which are hard to find these days!] I simply drilled hole through side of BP well of standard forward closure.

Used simple machine screw.
Covered threads with section of plastic straw so threads don't chaff Kevlar.
Use few inches of Kevlar [here is 1/4 or 3/16 tubular] for harness to attach recovery to.

DSCN3820.jpg DSCN3822.jpg


DSCN3823.jpg

Simple cheap and can be removed easily, should desire to use motor eject arise.
NO it does not count as motor modification ex use only!!@#$

Edit: size is 4-40..same I use for mounting altimeter stuff to sleds. If worried about strength....Google it. I did before using. Hasn't bent or budged in over 20 flights, various sized loads and rockets.
 
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Before they made plugged/tapped closures, [which are hard to find these days!] I simply drilled hole through side of BP well of standard forward closure.

Used simple machine screw.
Covered threads with section of plastic straw so threads don't chaff Kevlar.
Use few inches of Kevlar [here is 1/4 or 3/16 tubular] for harness to attach recovery to.

View attachment 332253 View attachment 332254


View attachment 332255

Simple cheap and can be removed easily, should desire to use motor eject arise.
NO it does not count as motor modification ex use only!!@#$

Edit: size is 4-40..same I use for mounting altimeter stuff to sleds. If worried about strength....Google it. I did before using. Hasn't bent or budged in over 20 flights, various sized loads and rockets.

Nice thanks!

I'll be doing the same.

Nate
 
With all the new interest in MD extreme rockets lately, I sure hope Tim adds the Blackhawks to his Black sale! Even if he doesn't, I think I see a BH38 in my near future.
 
Before they made plugged/tapped closures, [which are hard to find these days!] I simply drilled hole through side of BP well of standard forward closure.

Used simple machine screw.
Covered threads with section of plastic straw so threads don't chaff Kevlar.
Use few inches of Kevlar [here is 1/4 or 3/16 tubular] for harness to attach recovery to.

View attachment 332253 View attachment 332254


View attachment 332255

Simple cheap and can be removed easily, should desire to use motor eject arise.
NO it does not count as motor modification ex use only!!@#$

Edit: size is 4-40..same I use for mounting altimeter stuff to sleds. If worried about strength....Google it. I did before using. Hasn't bent or budged in over 20 flights, various sized loads and rockets.

Brilliant! Who needs an eyebolt? The best solutions are always the simplest ones.
 
With all the new interest in MD extreme rockets lately, I sure hope Tim adds the Blackhawks to his Black sale! Even if he doesn't, I think I see a BH38 in my near future.

Amazing what tiny GPS tracking, and ridiculously powerful commercial 38mm reloads will do. Even rocket neophytes like me can take shots at 15k and up for less than a small fortune.
 
Amazing what tiny GPS tracking, and ridiculously powerful commercial 38mm reloads will do. Even rocket neophytes like me can take shots at 15k and up for less than a small fortune.

Agreed. A 38 mm MD plus a Loki I405 is probably the cheapest and easiest route to for me to get one of my next rocketry goals, Mach + Mile.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
This was an excellent read.

I got lucky picking up one of the $99 MC door busters this passed Friday.

Anything you'd change using current tech or materials Jim?
Just talked to Jackie and she says Tim is upgrading the NC's to FWFG with metal tip! Cant wait to get mine.
 
Kewl... there ya go.

Get a 6in coupler for NC shoulder & vent band. Make av-bay.
You can DD out of NC!
Really go high, Optimize the darn thing.

Those were not available when this thread started 8 yrs ago....lol Now you can screw eyebolt into metal tip for recovery attachment.
Keep us informed!
 
Jim- quick question.... a 38mm Min Dia is on my to-do list. To keep the fins totally parallel with the main tube without slots, are you just relying on the bottom fin guide edges being flat and parallel on the surface it is sitting on? So I assume they are indexed somehow and its important to keep them lined up properly? I was expecting a bunch of marking etc of the tubing and concerned about epoxy oozing out etc.
thanks-
Tim
 
Guides are marked "T" for top.
I bevel the slot edges near tube,so there is a space for exceeds glue. Go back to post 3 of this thread to see how to do it. Click 3 times to enlarge .All other instruction are at beginning of this thread.

Then you put a ring of tape in back & front of fin, mark center with guide of all 3 . draw a straight line so you have a reference line on the tape, to align fins with....it's all there.

What I do now years later...is just tack first fin on with CA. That will hold the guide from moving. Tack the other 2 fins on with epoxy.
. When they cure, remove guide, break the CA'd fin off sand residue.
Replace guide & tack that fin on...done!

Much simpler than before.

PS use something to hold up front of tube so guides are both on/level with table.
 
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Jim- quick question.... a 38mm Min Dia is on my to-do list. To keep the fins totally parallel with the main tube without slots, are you just relying on the bottom fin guide edges being flat and parallel on the surface it is sitting on? So I assume they are indexed somehow and its important to keep them lined up properly? I was expecting a bunch of marking etc of the tubing and concerned about epoxy oozing out etc.
thanks-
Tim
I use a piece of angle stock of some kind. Put your tube in the angle and mark a perfectly parallel line along the entire tube.
 
I use a piece of angle stock of some kind. Put your tube in the angle and mark a perfectly parallel line along the entire tube.

Ohhhh...you mean like here above your post:
"Then you put a ring of tape in back & front of fin, mark center with guide of all 3 . draw a straight line so you have a reference line on the tape, to align fins with....it's all there."

or like here on the first page!:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...wk-prototype-first-look-!&p=144348#post144348

Ummm just read the darn instructions....it's ALL there starting 2 pages back.

The tube used to be black and hard to see the lines, why I recommended a tape ring in back & front of fin ....so you could see that straight line on the tape,put there with your favorite method.....LOL
 
Sorry to beat an old horse....

How many push pins did ya use to hold the av section? And I think you mentioned one sheer pin per side right?

Thanks

Nate

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Rocketry Forum mobile app
 
I use 2 [PML style]rivets to hold av-bay in payload & only 1 [2-256]shear pin in nose cone.

Finishing up my Mongoose 38mm CF in an attempt to launch it next weekend. With 1 shear pin holding the nose cone, what sort of charges are you using? This is my first CF and my first 38mm, so I'm a bit leery of overdoing it on the charge. For the booster I used an Aerotech MD retainer spaced way up in there for a 6XL case, so there isn't a lot of volume down there, either.
 
For the upper I would do about 0.4 grams 4fg.

Lower it depends on how much tube there is?

That said, ground testing is your friend.
 
Finishing up my Mongoose 38mm CF in an attempt to launch it next weekend. With 1 shear pin holding the nose cone, what sort of charges are you using? This is my first CF and my first 38mm, so I'm a bit leery of overdoing it on the charge. For the booster I used an Aerotech MD retainer spaced way up in there for a 6XL case, so there isn't a lot of volume down there, either.
I'm working on finishing up my no goose too. I'm planning to put a Loki K1127 in it, so I really had to push my MD retainer up there. I had to chop off some of the Av-Bay to accommodate for it. It's gonna be a little difficult to get everything shoved in there, but I'll manage. Probably only go with about 5 feet of Kevlar and go drougeless.
 
Finishing up my Mongoose 38mm CF in an attempt to launch it next weekend. With 1 shear pin holding the nose cone, what sort of charges are you using? This is my first CF and my first 38mm, so I'm a bit leery of overdoing it on the charge. For the booster I used an Aerotech MD retainer spaced way up in there for a 6XL case, so there isn't a lot of volume down there, either.

I use .75 gr of BP. with short motors, and .5 bp when stuffing 6-6xl's in there.
NC I use .75

BUT I have a lot of volume to fill.If you have glued retainers in there, you need the smaller amount. I do NOT use a shear pin in apogee side of mine.

If your payload is same , then .75 will suffice.

You will have to adjust everything to fit the mods you
made & do a couple simple ground tests...just to be sure.
Let us know how you make out!

PS: since I only use 1 altimeter with this rocket, I use 2 matches for each charge,[apogee/main] giving me some redundancy.
 
Some of you lucky enough to be at Red Glare or Mid West power got to see one firsthand. Never know what Tim's gonna pull out of the trailer or when!

I finished the proto just in time to fly it at MWP. Was going to test it on a wimpy little H-123, just to make sure everything worked correctly. [charges,vents,shearpins etc.]

But as luck would have it, my buddy Daryl from Wildman Kentucky was there. He stopped me from making this wimpy blunder in the nick of time.


Seeing the new Blackhawk 38, he immediately challenged me to a Drag race with his Mongoose 38.
Hmmmm, a chance to see how this beast would do against a carbon fiber speedster,something that was going to happen sooner or later anyhow.

Well you know the rule: if a Wildman brother throws down the challenge,ain't no back'n out. Like I'm going to turn down a chance to drag race?:D

And don't forget the other Wildman rule, something about sticking the biggest motor you can in the pipe that will fit.

So much for the wimpy test flight and working my way up with motors. Start right off the bat with a biggie in a drag race. Must be in the Blackhawks bloodline! I wouldn't have it any other way.

Soooo.....we rounded up 2 CTI blue streak J-595 6 grain XL's and it was game on. If you haven't tried a blue steak yet, DO IT,do it now, they are really something! [and they match my eyes, most of the time, Sunday morning they look more like the red lightning!]

BlackHawk 38 weighed 4.7 lbs on the pad.
Mongoose 38 weighed 4.3lbs on the pad. [6inches longer]

Button pushed and away they went in a blurrrrr...........
Thanks to Daveyfire we got a pic of the first flight. Thanks David, don't know how you do what you do, but you do!

The results speak for themselves, Mongoose was a tad faster off the rail,but when it was time to count the cards......

Blackhawk hit 12,188ft
Mongoose hit 11,001ft

Whoa! partners....we got us a winner here, er....Wildman does!
Just goes to show something I've been saying all along, carbon can be overkill for alot of things and fiberglass can do much more than given credit for.
Especially at less than HALF the price. Got ya thinking now, don't I!

Just one problem though. What to fly next to re-capture the thrill? I'm sure I'll think of something. [reminder to self:must look in Tim's & Dr. J's area 51]


On with the build!:pop::cheers:


I got a Mongoose 38 at a swap-meet for $70. I just put the second fin on it tonight. I really shoved the minimum diameter retainer far in the booster. I'm going to put a Loki K1127 in it. :lol:
 
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