What Do You Consider "Mid Power"?

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mkadams001

mkadams001

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I ask because as I peruse the forum I notice that there are a few who are beginning to test the mid power waters. To me, it seems some are only dipping their big toe by building a little bigger rocket so they can fly with an E or maybe a small F motor with rocket weight barely reaching a pound.

So, I ask the question; what do you consider mid power? I have always considered it E, F, and G motors but of late I also consider the low H motors as mid power as well while dropping the E motor from my list. I am interested in your thoughts and opinions on this topic.
 
To me, MPR means one or more of the following:

Over 1 lb liftoff weight.

E-G total impulse range.

Greater than ~12N average thrust.

Reloadable motors.

APCP
 
D through G motors that do not require high power certification to purchase and possess. The size of the rocket isn't so critical in determining what does or does not fit into the category; much more of a determinant is what impulse range of motors it is designed to be launched on. I have a cloned FSI Maverick, which is 29" tall and 1.64" in diameter. Empty and without parachute it weighs 5 oz., yet it is sturdily built with epoxy and has plywood fins and a 29mm motor mount. My cloned FSI Oso is even thinner and lighter (1.17" in diameter and just over 4 oz.). It has a 24mm mount and I have flown it on D motors, but it is also built strong and the original was designed to use up to a small F motor. I definitely consider both of them to be mid-power rockets. My Mercury Engineering Hijacker is a good deal larger but it is also an MPR. My Maxi Alpha is 2.6" in diameter and weighs a little over 8 oz. The heaviest rocket that I have launched so far is my Hercules (2.34" dia., 33.5" tall, 15 oz.) on a 3 x D12 cluster. Four years ago I launched a 3.5 oz., 29mm upscaled Midnight Express on an F25 (and never saw it again). I recently launched my 38mm Cinco on a G69N, which is the largest motor that I have used so far. I regard all of these and others that I have that are in between them in size to be mid-powered rockets. H motors are high power motors.
 
SCE to AUX said:
To me, MPR means one or more of the following:

Over 1 lb liftoff weight.
Click to expand...
...or

SCE to AUX said:
E-G total impulse range.
Click to expand...
...or

SCE to AUX said:
Greater than ~12N average thrust.
Click to expand...
...or

SCE to AUX said:
Reloadable motors.
Click to expand...
...or

SCE to AUX said:
APCP
Click to expand...
So at least one of the above criteria must be met. IOW it can qualify if it weighs less than 1 lb. at liftoff, but uses an 18mm D24 reload or an 18mm SU composite D21 (both of which have greater than 12N average thrust). If it uses an E11J reload, which has less than 12N avg. thrust but is an E (and a reloadable, using APCP) it qualifies. If it used a black powder FSI E5, which had only 4.89N avg. thrust, it would still qualify because it used an E. Is all of this correct?

If so, then I'll support that definition. MPR has always had somewhat vague criteria to me. But I would know one if I saw it. ;) Your definition nails it down a bit better.
 
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To me, MPR is anything that uses E through G class motors.

What makes mid-power so difficult to pin down is that it is no different from LPR with a low E motor and not much different than HPR with a high G motor. Perhaps part of the problem is that there are no build techniques that are exclusive to MPR.

I fly MPR exclusively. Some entirely with LPR build techniques, others entirely with HPR techniques, and most with some mix of the two. I've flown slow-burning F motors with LPR build techniques and watched them disappear. I've flown faster-burning F motors in HPR airframes designed for H-I motors to altitudes of just a few hundred feet.
 
For me it's E-G using APCP.

I don't consider weight at all. After all the term is mid-power, not mid-weight.
 
By definition Mid power is any model powered by E though G class motors. that includes complex clustered BP D12 models. I never fly APCP but most of my UP-Scale models are Clustered D12 motor models Over 1 pound which are MPR models.
Anything H and above is HPR.
 
It's a model rocket with an installed total impulse over 40 Ns and not exceeding 320 Ns with no single motor exceeding 160 Ns, 80 N average thrust, or containing more than 62.5 g of propellant, and not more than 125 g of propellant in all motors.

A low power model rocket (not exceeding 40 Ns or D impulse) requires a 15' separation distance whereas a mid-power model rocket (exceeding 40 Ns which is E inpulse) requires a 30' separation distance.

Bob
 
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What do I consider Mid power... "J" and below....

What does NAR TRA etc consider Mid power? thats all been stated before so I won't repeat it. basically "G" and below. (but not all g's )
 
It is Mid Power when "I" want to impress my friends that “I” am flying my Launch Pad MID POWER kit on a powerful and manly cluster of D12’s, or my awesome BIG Daddy on the mighty E9 monster motor. It is also Mid Power when "I" am trying to launch my chubby Cosmodrome Vostok on a whimpy baby H to just a few hundred feet of altitude and landing well with in the confines of the club's field. Too bad there is no “I” in NAR rules!
 
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Nor the FAA, etc, eh?

(my bad, typing w/o thinking)
 
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Before my BARdom the last time I had launched a rocket was back in the 70’s, where it said right there in the Estes catalog that mighty “D” power was for experienced rocketeers only. Boy was I surprised to find out how the mighty D had fallen to the measly ranks of Low Power, Greasy Kids Stuff. Once honored Maxi Brutes were laughed at for flying on the mighty D, while the Jr. Level ones were ripping off the pad on H motors. I had been in a model rocket time warp, my little rocketry world was totally shattered.

As time and the progress of mankind moves on, as motors get more and more powerful, I can see the day when regulators might move the line in sand and thus move up the boundaries of low and mid power. Or maybe they will just add an Ultra High Power Classification and move the realm of research to an even higher plain of existence.

And yes, there is no “I” BAFTE, rouge launch, or your busted dude! I’m just a Mid Power, middle aged BAR, driving a mid priced car, living in the middle of the country in the middle class with a tendency toward moderate political views of administrative law rule making procedures. Rocketry is just a symptom of my mid life crisis because I can’t afford a split window Corvette. How boring is that!
 
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I have a different mindset for "Mid power" I concider any motor that is not 18mm or 13mm, and 6mm, and smaller than an H I would consider the 18mm D21 low power, and the Estes 24mm D12 mid power. Why? I have no clue, that's how I've alwaysthought of it.
 
mkadams001 said:
So, I ask the question; what do you consider mid power? I have always considered it E, F, and G motors but of late I also consider the low H motors as mid power as well while dropping the E motor from my list. I am interested in your thoughts and opinions on this topic.
Click to expand...

Here are my thoughts and opinions ->

Any rocket/motor combination that requires HP certification to fly is NOT "mid-power" to me. That includes the G size sparkies and other high thrust G's. Since I'm not cert'ed and can't fly those yet - they are all "HP" to me. :p

I consider any black powder motor, including Estes E9's to be low power (in my opinion) There is a big honkin' visual/audible difference between BP and composite motors that can't be overlooked. :cool:

To me "mid power" is composite E thru double G as long as it can be shipped without a hazmat fee and flown without certification. :D
 
It's a model rocket with an installed total impulse over 40 Ns and not exceeding 320 Ns with no single motor exceeding 160 Ns, 80 N average thrust, or containing more than 62.5 g of propellant, and not more than 125 g of propellant in all motors........
Click to expand...

Having just studied for my L2 (and getting it), that sounds awfully familiar...
 
Gnomad said:
What makes mid-power so difficult to pin down is that it is no different from LPR with a low E motor and not much different than HPR with a high G motor. Perhaps part of the problem is that there are no build techniques that are exclusive to MPR.
Click to expand...

I think this is a good point. This is part of why I have dropped E motors from what I consider mid power. Just about any 24 mm kit can be fitted with an E or F motor now. I have seen a few failures by putting in a composite motor in a rocket meant for black powder but overall there have been some really good flights. So, here is what was thought to be a low power kit, flying by strict definition, mid power. While there may be no exclusive build techniques for mid power; I use the same build principles for any size rocket.

Great opinions, which I think are far more interesting and informative than strict definitions.
 
> 30 N-s, composite propellant, and does not require a waiver. This includes small H motors.
 
Daddyisabar said:
Before my BARdom the last time I had launched a rocket was back in the 70’s, where it said right there in the Estes catalog that mighty “D” power was for experienced rocketeers only. Boy was I surprised to find out how the mighty D had fallen to the measly ranks of Low Power, Greasy Kids Stuff. Once honored Maxi Brutes were laughed at for flying on the mighty D, while the Jr. Level ones were ripping off the pad on H motors. I had been in a model rocket time warp, my little rocketry world was totally shattered.

As time and the progress of mankind moves on, as motors get more and more powerful, I can see the day when regulators might move the line in sand and thus move up the boundaries of low and mid power. Or maybe they will just add an Ultra High Power Classification and move the realm of research to an even higher plain of existence.

And yes, there is no “I” BAFTE, rouge launch, or your busted dude! I’m just a Mid Power, middle aged BAR, driving a mid priced car, living in the middle of the country in the middle class with a tendency toward moderate political views of administrative law rule making procedures. Rocketry is just a symptom of my mid life crisis because I can’t afford a split window Corvette. How boring is that!
Click to expand...
I'm like you. I've always included D motors in my conception of mid power. I realize that not too many other people think so, but it's my own definition, which is what the OP was asking.

Defining MPR in any way besides total impulse just reflects the person's individual prejudices. Saying that the propellant must be part of the definition (so that no black powder motor, regardless of impulse, could ever be considered to be anything but low power) is completely arbitrary and indefensible. The same holds true for including the total weight of the rocket in the definition. Feel free to disagree with me, but that's what I think.
 
scsager said:
I consider any black powder motor, including Estes E9's to be low power (in my opinion) There is a big honkin' visual/audible difference between BP and composite motors that can't be overlooked. :cool:
Click to expand...


What about a black powder H? I guarentee it was loud and the visual effects were nice too.

spent-motor-2.jpg
 
I saw one of those recently - the noise wasn't all that special, but the visual effects were something to behold.
 
cjl said:
I saw one of those recently - the noise wasn't all that special, but the visual effects were something to behold.
Click to expand...

I was standing way too close!:y:
 
I know that feeling :D

I have to say though - it was incredible to see the spark trail. Another club member launched a silver streak just before I launched a J340 Metalstorm, and the Silver Streak might have had more sparks, despite being a much smaller motor (though it wasn't as loud).
 
I would say my definition of mid power would be similar to Micro's, only difference being that when using a single E, I would say black powder would be in the low power category while composite certainly is more mid-power-ish. But certainly you'd have to consider something like a Launch Pad Nike Ajax a mid power even though it flies on black powder because it's a big honkin rocket and those 3 D12s clustered have total impulse in a mid power range.

Glenn
 
E power through the "baby" H motors.
Hopefully soon the "H" motors will no longer be considered High-Power.
Two G80's have a heck of a lot more impulse and average thrust than a H128.
 
MarkII said:
Saying that the propellant must be part of the definition (so that no black powder motor, regardless of impulse, could ever be considered to be anything but low power) is completely arbitrary and indefensible. The same holds true for including the total weight of the rocket in the definition. Feel free to disagree with me, but that's what I think.
Click to expand...

Hey hey, up your nose with a rubber hose!!! :neener:

*Ahem* Sorry, Arnold made me do it. :roll:
 
I consider MPR to be an outdated term that used to refer to the higher end of Class 1 rocketry.
 
OK…Mid Power is like Peter and Jan, Low Power is like Bobby and Cindy, and High Power is like Marsha and Greg. So that is why every time I see a high power rocket launch I have to stomp my feet and say “Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!”
 

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