Printable version NFPA 1127?

Printable versions cost up to or more than $30+! Does anyone know of a place to go to print this document with out that charge?

Irfanview(I think that's what it's called) might be your answer.

Now, I seem to remember the debate on using Irfanview to bypass and DL things in the old incarnation of TRF.

Pretty sure this will sturr up the opposing views again.:eyepop:op:


(I did the very thing your asking to do)

If you work for a company that subscribes to a national (and international) standards library service, you can view and print and save copies of most anything, including the current and past NFPA codes.

It would be illegal for me to post or e-mail a copy to anyone. When we save a copy or print a copy, it includes markings that inducate when it was downloaded or printed and under what license.

There are also some NAR publications and standards listed. The Pink book is one and there is also ED-20. It refers you over to the NAR to purchase.

I use this library service all the time to look up standards, specs (US and other), and also to look for parts. Very useful.

gary7 said:

Printable versions cost up to or more than $30+! Does anyone know of a place to go to print this document with out that charge?

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No. All NFPA documents are copyrighted, so if you need a hardcopy, you have to purchase it from NFPA.

Bob

I just bought a copy from their site and paid their fee. Too bad that they have multiple typographical mistakes in the document. Really makes it quite a rip off to buy the 'official' version of the document and not receive any sort of eratta sheet that provides the correct text. Wasted a lot of my time getting clarification for those typographical errors.

gary7 said:

Printable versions cost up to or more than $30+! Does anyone know of a place to go to print this document with out that charge?

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You might check with your public library to see whether they have a set of the codes.

gary7 said:

Printable versions cost up to or more than $30+! Does anyone know of a place to go to print this document with out that charge?

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Did you want to have your own copy or was there something specific you were attempting to research?

Greg

bobkrech said:

No. All NFPA documents are copyrighted, so if you need a hardcopy, you have to purchase it from NFPA.

Bob

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The copyright of this code is questionable in some circumstances. An appeals court decision in 2002 said that you can't copyright public law.

Our short answer is that as law, the model codes enter the public domain and are not subject to the copyright holder’s exclusive prerogatives. As model codes, however, the organization’s works retain their protected status.

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Although the connection is indirect, I could argue that NFPA 1122, 1125, and 1127 can be copied without regard to copyright status since they are referenced ("The storage, handling and use of model and high power rocket motors shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.") in the International Fire Code which has been adopted as law by the city where I live and many others.

In any case it is easy to access and view the document through the NFPA web site. Although the app that displays the document is designed to prevent saving or printing a copy, it can still be done.

UhClem said:

The copyright of this code is questionable in some circumstances. An appeals court decision in 2002 said that you can't copyright public law.

Although the connection is indirect, I could argue that NFPA 1122, 1125, and 1127 can be copied without regard to copyright status since they are referenced ("The storage, handling and use of model and high power rocket motors shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.") in the International Fire Code which has been adopted as law by the city where I live and many others.

In any case it is easy to access and view the document through the NFPA web site. Although the app that displays the document is designed to prevent saving or printing a copy, it can still be done.

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NFPA is very clever in their introductory section stating that the codes are not the law, however they also give instructions on how to incorporate their codes into law.

Not that it matters, but I agree that you should not have to pay to have access to the law. Everyone is supposed to be treated equally under the law, but I'm not sure that not having sufficient funds to purchase a written copy of the law would stand up in court as a legal defense!

Catch 22.

Bob

Just a tidbit of information that many of you many not know. I used to work for a company that was responsible for maintaining and printing many of the codes used for natural gas appliances. The operation of the organizations that maintain and print many of these codes are private nonprofit industries and not tax supported public offices. The sales of the codes is what provides the dollars to write and maintain them.

Peartree said:

Just a tidbit of information that many of you many not know. I used to work for a company that was responsible for maintaining and printing many of the codes used for natural gas appliances. The operation of the organizations that maintain and print many of these codes are private nonprofit industries and not tax supported public offices. The sales of the codes is what provides the dollars to write and maintain them.

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Was it the AGA? If so then they didn't charge enough since they effectively disappeared a few years ago. Now all the equipment we use has CSA (Canadian Standards not the Confederacay) approvals.

according to david beaudin, Supervisor, Code Compliance & Enforcement Unit
Department of Fire Services-Division of Fire Safety in MA...

my inquiry (this dates back several months to the 2010 version of NFPA 1123 as it applies to handfiring unspent shells in a fireworks show in MA) go's as follows

One more concern i have is in regards to NFPA 1123 in general. is there any possible way that i can see the laws that govern, without having to pay to see them? something about that just seems wrong...it is my understanding that NFPA 1123's text is only available under contract terms and is not free text...am i wrong on that?

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and his reply

You may view any of the NFPA codes online at the NFPA website (NFPA.ORG) without charge.

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although i had no such luck doing so anonymously, without voluntarily giving information about myself in exchange for the regulations...

billspad said:

Was it the AGA? If so then they didn't charge enough since they effectively disappeared a few years ago. Now all the equipment we use has CSA (Canadian Standards not the Confederacay) approvals.

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I did work for A.G.A.L. (American Gas Association Laboratories) - for about ten years - which then merged with C.G.A. (Canadian Gas Association) to become IAS (International Approvals Service) and then our parent company A.G.A. sold the entire Laboratory and standards division to CSA just about the time I quit.

Part of the issue here is just that: if I want to review the policies, I have to go on line. There are still many, many things that people like to have hard copies of rather than being forced to go online to read them. This is one of those times and the powers that be know that. So, they take advantage of that by charging us the money to get that written copy. It would be so simple to allow us to print it from the site on our own printers. Besides, aren't these from the federal government regulations? My taxes should be enough to pay for the viewing online and then allowing me to print my own copy.

gary7 said:

Part of the issue here is just that: if I want to review the policies, I have to go on line. There are still many, many things that people like to have hard copies of rather than being forced to go online to read them. This is one of those times and the powers that be know that. So, they take advantage of that by charging us the money to get that written copy. It would be so simple to allow us to print it from the site on our own printers. Besides, aren't these from the federal government regulations? My taxes should be enough to pay for the viewing online and then allowing me to print my own copy.

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That's what I was trying to say. Generally, no, these are not federal laws but are drafted and maintained by private, not-for-profit companies so, no, they are not tax supported.

I believe that is the case for NFPA but I'm not certain. Someone else is probably sure of the details in this case.

I am currently a Fire Science Major at Lake Superior State University. Your best bet is to get it at the library if you don't want to pay the fee. Most of my Text Books just have a brief description on the NFPA's they too can not put the whole NFPA in the books.

Emily

I'm a real estate appraiser and our standards are also copyrighted by a pseuto-private organization. That's one that likes to act like a private enterprise but initially received tax payer funding.

Anyway, they charge for our standards and I've heard that the number of printed manuals sold is less than the number of licensed appraisers by a margin into the tens of thousands.

Copyrighting and/or private ownership of standards that must be adhered to is never in the public's best interest.

https://unh.edu/rocketcats/NFPA-1127.pdf

a

afadeev said:

https://unh.edu/rocketcats/NFPA-1127.pdf

a

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2008 NFPA 1127 is out of date. Changes were made which invalidates.

You would need to purchase it

Although this is a very old thread, for the benefit of more recent posters, Tripoli sent one printed copy of the newest version of NFPA 1127 (the 2018 revision) to every Tripoli Prefect.

this my be stupid but what about writing it out yourself word for word in case you just need a reference to fall back on .

or make a recording of you reading the document and use it as a Quote ?

Bobby

bobby_hamill said:

this my be stupid but what about writing it out yourself word for word in case you just need a reference to fall back on .

or make a recording of you reading the document and use it as a Quote ?

Bobby

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I’m pretty sure both of those would still be violating copyrights, but I doubt anyone would care.
I don’t know what your time is worth, but either a pdf or a bound copy of NFPA can be purchased for $42. That’s not cheap, but it’s much less than the cost of a new textbook.
I think people resent having to pay for it because they don’t understand the concept of sample code writing. NFPA codes are not created by the government. They are proposed rules, written by participants who come from the very groups affected by the rules. Tripoli and NAR both have representatives on the Pyrotechnic NFPA Committee which maintains 1122, 1125, and 1127. So do Aerotech, CTI, and Estes. So do some government departments. ATF and the California State Fire Marshall.
NFPA doesn’t actually write any of the codes. They facilitate the effort, provide the staff and all of the maintenance. NFPA provides a well established framework for those proposed rules. Then, state or local governments adopt those proposed rules by reference. It would be easier for end users if governments negotiated adoption of the rules with the ability to provide us with the actual rules, but they might have to pay for the copyrights and the risk is that a number of derivatives could evolve.
State and local governments don’t have to adopt NFPA. They could develop their own rules. That’s what happened in California. The problem then is that a government might choose the path which is most convenient for the government and the most restrictive on the participants. Some local AHJs might not even know about the NFPA codes for rocketry; they simply adopt a collection of codes that we all refer to as “Fire Code” or “the building code” and 1122, 1125, and 1127 come along for the ride.