Build Thread: Estes V2 Up-power

One of my favorite kits is the Estes V2 (#1926). I have flown one using the standard build many times over the years but have always thought about modifying the kit to let me fly it on E motors. I have an unopened kit on hand and decided to go for it. Bradycros suggested I do a build thread so here goes for my first ever! I'm posting in Mid-Power instead of Scale since the goal is "more power" rather than scaling.

The Estes V2 is already a pretty solid rocket and I have bounced it off the pavement with no real damage. So I only plan to make some minimal mods to let me put in 24mm engines/motors like E9 or an Aerotech E15. Pictures of the standard kit are below.

The basic modifications I plan are:

1. Modify the engine mount to use friction fit instead of the engine hook and use plywood rings to mount the engine tube into the body.
2. Replace the shock cord with a fabric cord. Set up to allow different chutes or even a streamer to be clipped in.
3. Replace the balsa fins with plywood. The fins mount through the boat tail and are pretty solid but the plywood should be even tougher.
4. Use epoxy rather than wood glue except in a couple of places.
5. Add a bit more weight to the nose cone to account for heavier motors and fins.

I will post a reply at each major step with some photos starting with the engine mount. I have some other projects and (ugh...) a job but hopefully I can move along at a good pace. We're near the end of flying season in New England so it won't fly until next year anyway.

Engine mount coming soon...

I look forward to the build ,nice little rocket and another one of my favorite Estes kits (that and the maxi-Brutes)

Paul

Love the V2

I know it's a bit ahead of time, but have you got a paint scheme in mind?
Excelsoirrocketry has some excellent decals for the V2

I really like the lines of the V-2 (A-4). I wish Estes would bring it back so I could build the kit also. The V-2 rules. Guess I'll have to try and scratch build one. Glad your shareing the build.



In an Army installation eventually known as Heeresversuchsanstalt Peenemünde (HVP), Wernher von Braun and others designed and tested a series of rockets known as A-1 through A-3 (A = Aggregat). Design work for the military A-4 rocket had already begun by 1937, but setbacks necessitated tests with an experimental A-5 vehicle. After a series of failures, the first successful A-4 launch eventually occurred on 3 October 1942. The A-4 missile received the propaganda designation V-2 (V = Vergeltungswaffe = Vengeance Weapon), and under that name the rocket would become (in-)famous.

Gonna fly it at any CMASS launches?

I haven't thought too much about the paint scheme. I did look at some websites with various German and US photos. I'll check out those decals. The picture below is my current one which just has a camouflage theme.

Maybe we should lobby Estes for a return for the V2!

I fly with CMASS so that is where it will make it's maiden flight next spring.

How 'bout the classic White Sands look:



My Canadian Arrow with heavy wall 24mm mmt, 0.125 lite ply rings and
a baffle but stock balsa fins. Has dozens of flights from D12s to F39s without a hitch. Basically the same kit just a bit longer airframe.
IMHO you don't need ply fins on these, they are very sturdy when properly filleted.

EDIT: All put together with Titebond II yellow glue, also has Kevlar shockie and ripstop chute...

I will be watching this build as I have wanted this same kit for sometime. I was thinking of the same mods for mine when and if I ever get one. Hard to find at a decant price.

I finished the engine mount and epoxied it into the body. I scanned the instruction page for it and made notes on it to help visualize what I did (see below). The goals were 1) allow any length 24mm motor, 2) strengthen the motor mount/body tube connection and 3) strengthen the shock cord.

I did away with the engine hook stuff and simply epoxied an engine block at the forward end of the tube. I replaced the larger mounting rings with plywood rings but left the rear ring as cardboard. I did move the two rear rings forward 1/4" so that the end of the motor tube is flush with the end of the boat tail. This will let me slip a bit of masking tape around the end of a motor when I launch. The original placement was set to make the end of the engine hook flush with the end of the boat tail. (I test fit to make sure everything would line up before I glues) I cut a slit in the forward centering ring and ran a nylon cord through it, knotting and epoxying the knot to the ring. I then put the mount into the body tube as described in the instructions but used epoxy rather than white glue. The other pictures below show the forward end with the block and the final assembly. I need to take a picture of the mounted tube and I'll post it later today.

I cut the fins and will be finishing the before putting on the boat tail and attaching them. Any suggestions for fillets? My next post will be after I mount the fins but probably before filleting.

Here's the boat tail and body tube with the engine mount in place. The engine tube is flush with the boat tail.

You can make the fins more scale if you add nose weight. I see a lot of V2 with oversize fins that don't seem to look right. There is a good example in Peter Always book the Art of Scale Model Rocketry.

Build is look'n good. Although you already stated in post #one that your goal is "more power" rather then scaling, you maybe interested in taking a look at the fin templates from (one is scale and another is semi scale) the Estes V-2, # K-22 on page seven of the instructions. www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/estes/K-22.pdf

I used three thin layers of yellow glue and the fins are rock solid.
Let the glue dry completely before the next layer...

Scuff the tailcone around the fin fillet area first, I used 150 grit IIRC...

I don't have RockSim but used Open Rocket to try to estimate what would happen if I cut my fins down to match the scale fins in the old kit instructions. The 12.8g clay weight in the kit I am using seems to be just a little low for the modifications I am making and I was planning to add extra clay. If I cut the fins back to a more proper scale size (~10% less root chord and ~25% less span), I think I would need to put about 80+ grams into the nose. The predicted altitudes are still pretty good so maybe I will try it.

I was looking at some of the early US flights for my "decor". Does anyone know if the Excelsior decals help here? Here's a diagram of one the possible configurations.

ClusterNut said:

I was looking at some of the early US flights for my "decor". Does anyone know if the Excelsior decals help here? Here's a diagram of one the possible configurations.

Click to expand...

Close to the bottom of the home page www.excelsiorrocketry.com you will find the following:


Excelsior releases German A4/V2 decal sheet



Excelsior Rocketry announces the release of the first of our new V2 decal sets. This set includes decals for German A4/V2 test flights, as well as operational missiles.

The test flight decals include 'tail art' and fin#s for test flights # 3 and 4, 'The flying Witch', and the 'Frau im Monde', most sets will also include tail stripes for later Peenemunde test launches. The operational decals include 5 sets of serial numbers to decorate your camoflaged, or solid olive painted operational missiles. An Excelsior Rocketry exclusive will be a decal representing the 'fin can' seperation line, so often overlooked by other model designers. Also included is a sheet showing decal placement, color schemes, and further references.

To make this decal set usable to as many modelers as possible, seperate decal sets will be offered to fit the models with the following diameters:
BT-55, BT-60, 2.25", 3.16", BT-80 and BT-101.
A follow up set will soon be released featuring decals to model post-war American launches.

To the left is a representation of 5 of the 8 different rockets than can be modeled using this decal set. (Note: the 'Frau im Monde' decal has two view to show the complicated roll pattern.)


Contact Gordy (Sandman) and he can make what you what.

I compared the scale and non-scale fins in the older Estes V2 plans and used the ratios to devise a newer fin for this build. It is not intended to be an exact scale but should be closer to the real thing and thus look better. I drew the outline on one of the balsa fins from the kit (left picture) and then cut it out to use as a template to cut down the plywood fins I made for this build. I put the template into the body to show how it will look (right picture).

I'll be filling and sanding the body tube, cutting the fins and then finishing them. I'll post something after.

Much better

ClusterNut said:

I don't have RockSim but used Open Rocket to try to estimate what would happen if I cut my fins down to match the scale fins in the old kit instructions. The 12.8g clay weight in the kit I am using seems to be just a little low for the modifications I am making and I was planning to add extra clay. If I cut the fins back to a more proper scale size (~10% less root chord and ~25% less span), I think I would need to put about 80+ grams into the nose. The predicted altitudes are still pretty good so maybe I will try it.

I was looking at some of the early US flights for my "decor". Does anyone know if the Excelsior decals help here? Here's a diagram of one the possible configurations.

Click to expand...

The German set is probably the closest to the black/white U.S. rounds.

Basically the U.S. round were just stripes and the roll pattern on the fins.

Just email me what you want and I can work something special up for you.

I also have the operation "SANDY" decals finished but not up on my web site yet.

In the meantime, try to detail the fins before you put them on. It's a bit of work but it pays of with a nice detail.

sandman said:

The German set is probably the closest to the black/white U.S. rounds.

Basically the U.S. round were just stripes and the roll pattern on the fins.

Just email me what you want and I can work something special up for you.

I also have the operation "SANDY" decals finished but not up on my web site yet.

In the meantime, try to detail the fins before you put them on. It's a bit of work but it pays of with a nice detail.

Click to expand...

Your decal set covers #3 and #4, right? I saw a JPG in another thread and I think that will be a pretty cool decor. I am shaping the fins so I will order soon.

I am not the best painter so I will have to be extra diligent!
:blush:

I added the fins after coating with dilute wood putty and sanding. I gave the edges a bit of an edge. The body tube spirals were filled in the same fashion. Next I will add the fillets and fill the seam between the boat tail and the body tube.

I did do a gross Cp check with a cutout of the rocket's outline and it matches up with the estimate I made with OpenRocket within .5cm. I will determine the final nose weight by adding clay and doing the old school string test to get the Cg at the right place.

The decals are on order from Excelsior. I'm glad I was convinced to scale the fins better. Here's a photo.

I primed it last night and it is looking good (see below). There are a couple of minor seams along the boat tail/body boundary which I need to touch up and then I can start painting. I put enough weight in the nose cone to put the CG a little over a body width ahead of the CP with an E9 in it. It's pretty heavy and I doubt an E will get it much over 400-500 feet but I need to weigh it and run the numbers. It will hold an F for more altitude. I might even try a D if the predictions look okay. Might make for a nice slow take off.

I plan to do the "Frau im Monde" version. It's a little daunting due to the paint job but I am hoping it will be an impressive sight on pad. (Thanks to the Sandman for a quick turnaround on the decals )

Your V-2 is looking good. Is the description below the paint scheme your going to do?

One of the first captured V2 launches at White Sands was also arguably the most colorful. Launch number 3, on May 10, 1946 saw a Yellow and Black V2 fly to an altitude of 70 miles. While this yellow and black paint scheme is pretty neat, period pictures from the Smithsonian show something even more interesting: On the tail, between fins III and IV, can be seen a nose-art style rendering of a pinup girl straddling a V2. Future flights were not only painted black and white, but no other V2 documentation shows any trace of the "V2 girl"

I am planning to use the fourth German V2. The paint scheme is included with the decals from Excelsior and I have found some pictures on the web as well. It has the black and white pattern and the "Frau im Monde" pinup on the fin can. The little picture below is a paper model with the same motif.

Besides the camo scheme ,the version you are doing is my favorite...good choice.

Nice work !

Paul T

Ah... yes, very good choice.

I have the first coat of white on and will do a second coat over the weekend. In the meantime I brought it to work and weighed it so I can do some estimates of altitude, coast time, etc. The empty rocket weighs in at 290.2g or about 10.25oz. I ran some simulations using Open Rocket:

E9-6 161 meters, 7 sec to apogee
E9-8 160 meters, 7 sec to apogee
E15-7 318 meters, 8.24 sec to apogee
E30-7 322 meters, 7.62 sec to apogee
F32-8 455 meters, 9 sec to apogee

I am thinking I will use the E9-6 for the first flight next spring.

Even though the weight is just over the 10oz max weight recommended for D12, I ran the simulation and got:

D12-5 84 meters, 4.8 sec to apogee

I may try it for giggles after I am sure that it flies okay with reasonable power.

My Canadian Arrow is barely under 8oz dry
and it loves AT E18W reloads for a nice flight to
~1200 feet...

The stock 8sec delay looks like less
than one second late so I haven't bothered to monkey
with a drill bit...

E9's ok if there's no wind....

Looking good....

I understand. I ran the E30 as an alternate since it has a nice kick. But I hope to be able to do the E9 if I can get a fairly calm day. Not easy where we fly though.

ClusterNut said:

I have the first coat of white on and will do a second coat over the weekend. In the meantime I brought it to work and weighed it so I can do some estimates of altitude, coast time, etc. The empty rocket weighs in at 290.2g or about 10.25oz. I ran some simulations using Open Rocket:

E9-6 161 meters, 7 sec to apogee
E9-8 160 meters, 7 sec to apogee
E15-7 318 meters, 8.24 sec to apogee
E30-7 322 meters, 7.62 sec to apogee
F32-8 455 meters, 9 sec to apogee

I am thinking I will use the E9-6 for the first flight next spring.

Even though the weight is just over the 10oz max weight recommended for D12, I ran the simulation and got:

D12-5 84 meters, 4.8 sec to apogee

I may try it for giggles after I am sure that it flies okay with reasonable power.

Click to expand...

I haven't used OpenRocket so I'm not sure, but are those times to apogee from lift-off? If so, you'll need to take the burn time into account, too, so D12-3 or E9-4 would be better choices for the delay. Personally, though, I would go with the E15 or E30.

I went back to my original handwritten notes and yes, the times are from liftoff. I had accounted for burn times when I ran the simulations the first time but only scribbled the results on a scratch sheet. I re-ran them later so I could print the screens to put in a folder with the marked up plans, photos, etc but forgot to mark the printouts with the burn time. I wrote the post based on the print outs, not my notes. Hopefully I would have noticed it before I actually picked the engines but thanks for catching it just in case.