Nervous about Level 1 Recovery

Thanks guys, for all the information about vent holes. This forum is a veritable fount of knowledge! Even though I still don't think it's necessary for the Minie Magg, I think I will go ahead and put a vent hole in it, just in case. It can't hurt, and better safe than sorry!

I am always reminded of the usefulness of vent holes whenever I return back home from a trip to sea level. My high-flying rockets have all been too small for this to have been an issue, and my largest rockets haven't gone quite high enough. But that's going to be changing.

Everyone here is rooting for you, Jim. Bonne chance!

I was very nervous before my L1 cert flight but shouldn't have been, really it is just like any other flight, except on a more powerful motor. I was less nervous during my L2 cert, and that was my first time using an altimeter and dual deployment....

An easy way to do it is to prepare a checklist for the flight. Although not written down I go through the same procedure for motor ejected flights (I have a different one for dual deployment and altimeter ejected flights). If I get interrupted I go back at least a step before where I think I was up to so I double check it.

Something simple like:
1. Check the recovery harness
2. Check all quick links are done up
3. Pack and install the chute and protector
4. Install the nosecone and check for tightness
5. load the motor case (Although I don't need the instructions I use them anyway as a checklist to make sure everything is right - I've never had a CATO and don't want to start) load the ejection charge.
6. Install the motor and check retention
7. Take my rocket to the RSO
8. Load on rail
9. Check the approx length of ignitor that should be in the motor and install the ignitor.
10. Check there is no power in the launch system and attach clips

Good luck on your L1 cert attempt, I went for mine (and achieved it) at Easter this year.

When I've helped with L1 certs, I generally ask the person before they pack their chute (and hopefully at home) to give a little tug on the shock cord at it's attachment points. Not a gorilla tug, but a little one to simulate shock cord loading. You'd be surprised the number of times this has resulted in them holding their entire shock cord. Better tug and test then fail certs, though.
Good luck with your cert, and now that it's 3 pages long you are required to post pictures

Thanks again guys, for all of your encouragement. I know it's basically just another flight, but there are several elements new to me. I've never used a Cesaroni motor before, never drilled a delay, nor ever used a tubular nylon shock cord. Even though I'm nervous, I still feel fairly confident that I'll succeed. The recovery area at this launchsite is reportedly flat and huge. And like someone said, if I fail, I can just try again. If the Minie Magg gets damaged beyond field repair, I'll have my LOC-IV with me that I can use for a second attempt. And there will be a vendor on site that I can purchase another motor from. I've got both Cesaroni and Aerotech 38mm cases, so that gives me a wide choice of possible motors. The only thing I have left to do is attach the keychain video camera. I'll have lots of photos and video from the ground, and hopefully inflight video too. The flight will be well documented!

And for those of you who didn't see my original build threads, here are a couple of photos of my Minie Magg and LOC-IV.

Both look great, and I'm sure your flight will go perfectly.

qquake2k said:

Thanks again guys, for all of your encouragement. I know it's basically just another flight, but there are several elements new to me. I've never used a Cesaroni motor before, never drilled a delay, nor ever used a tubular nylon shock cord. Even though I'm nervous, I still feel fairly confident that I'll succeed. The recovery area at this launchsite is reportedly flat and huge. And like someone said, if I fail, I can just try again. If the Minie Magg gets damaged beyond field repair, I'll have my LOC-IV with me that I can use for a second attempt. And there will be a vendor on site that I can purchase another motor from. I've got both Cesaroni and Aerotech 38mm cases, so that gives me a wide choice of possible motors. The only thing I have left to do is attach the keychain video camera. I'll have lots of photos and video from the ground, and hopefully inflight video too. The flight will be well documented!

And for those of you who didn't see my original build threads, here are a couple of photos of my Minie Magg and LOC-IV.

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Great paint jobs! Wise plan, having a backup... just in case.

If you've handled AT reloads before, you'll have no trouble with the CTI motors.

Certs are not "just another flight"... they're announced, and *everybody* is watching. That alone ups the "P" factor.

Good luck!

CF-105 said:

Great paint jobs! Wise plan, having a backup... just in case.

If you've handled AT reloads before, you'll have no trouble with the CTI motors.

Certs are not "just another flight"... they're announced, and *everybody* is watching. That alone ups the "P" factor.

Good luck!

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Thanks for the compliment! Oh great, I hadn't thought of the announcement and everybody watching. Now I'm nervous again! LOL

[YOUTUBE]Ny3QDKCdqPY[/YOUTUBE]



EDIT: Thank you very much for fixing my link!

youtube link is bad

I think this is what you meant...

MarkII said:

[YOUTUBE]Ny3QDKCdqPY[/YOUTUBE]

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qquake2k said:

Thanks for the compliment! Oh great, I hadn't thought of the announcement and everybody watching. Now I'm nervous again! LOL

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Don't forget the spectators with cameras and the such. It's gonna end up on Youtube one way or the other.

Let's plan for a success so you can be the one posting it to the Googtoob.

Don't forget to breathe.

o1d_dude said:

Don't forget the spectators with cameras and the such. It's gonna end up on Youtube one way or the other.

Let's plan for a success so you can be the one posting it to the Googtoob.

Don't forget to breathe.

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Oh, I'll be taking video, and my nephew will be taking stills. I'll post them whether I'm successful or not. Imagine, at my age, getting this excited over a model rocket!

And when you get to the end, you'll want to start it all over again.

sylvie369 said:

Handeman said:

Of course the best way to prevent this is to ground test and not use such a large deployment charge that the upper payload snaps to the end of the shock cord causing the nose cone and main recovery to keep going and exit the rocket.

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Curious: do you fly without shear pins in the parachute bay, then?

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That's correct. I've never used sheer pins on any rocket. I've been flying dual deploy since my L1 cert. I've never had an early deploy of the main on any flight, L1 or L2.

Handeman said:

That's correct. I've never used sheer pins on any rocket. I've been flying dual deploy since my L1 cert. I've never had an early deploy of the main on any flight, L1 or L2.

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So you ground test to find the amount of BP that just spits the chute out but doesn't send the recovery harness out to its full length? Do you do anything else to keep it all inside? I assume the nose cone fit is fairly snug.

FWIW..

I would use a nice long shock cord, the long cord gives everything a chance to slow down before it gets to the end of the cord.

I use (typically) tubular nylon, make a bunch of 'z' folds in it and use masking tape to hold the 'z's together, as each one breaks it slows things down a bit. Just use enough tape to hold them together don't over tape them.

Having said that, lots of good ways to make all this stuff work..

kramer714 said:

FWIW..

I would use a nice long shock cord, the long cord gives everything a chance to slow down before it gets to the end of the cord.

I use (typically) tubular nylon, make a bunch of 'z' folds in it and use masking tape to hold the 'z's together, as each one breaks it slows things down a bit. Just use enough tape to hold them together don't over tape them.

Having said that, lots of good ways to make all this stuff work..

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Yeah, I was originally going to use 15ft of 9/16" tubular nylon, but I think I'll use 20ft just to make sure. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to use rubber bands or masking tape. I've heard of people using both.

qquake2k said:

Yeah, I was originally going to use 15ft of 9/16" tubular nylon, but I think I'll use 20ft just to make sure. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to use rubber bands or masking tape. I've heard of people using both.

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I have not used the rubber band or masking tape method to slow down the deployment. But I got to thinking about the tape. In stead of using brut force to rip the bands of tape apart, sissors could be used to cut a small slit in one side of the tape. This would create a built in failure point. Once enough stress is applied at the slit, that's where the tape would rip, eh.
Ya gotta go to CC for this stuff!

I have this strange little roll of 3/16" pinstripe masking tape. Looks just like the regular 1" masking tape, just real skinny. I think I might try that Z-fold and tape trick for my L1 with the skinny stuff. I'll let you know how mine goes.

G.D.

Sgt Blowfly said:

The newer AT reloads now come with a plastic cap that fits very snug over the ejection well. Much better than the paper disks; never trusted them-used masking tape to make sure the BP wouldnt go anywhere.

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Does anyone else have a problem with ejecting a plastic cap at apogee?

We purchased two motors this past weekend that had these caps and could not figure out what they were for. They did not fit the ejection well on the 38special.

The Aerotech MPR reloads have a plastic cap but it is designed to fit snugly on the forward closure - they have a small moulded ring on the inside of the cap that snaps into a groove in the closure. I don't see how a good seal would be achieved on the knurled forward closure of a HPR reload though.

The tape disks never stick. I always use masking tape, a couple of pieces crossed over the well to seal in the BP then I put a wrap around the knurled part, over the ends of the tape to make sure it cannot come off.

Lamp said:

The Aerotech MPR reloads have a plastic cap but it is designed to fit snugly on the forward closure - they have a small moulded ring on the inside of the cap that snaps into a groove in the closure. I don't see how a good seal would be achieved on the knurled forward closure of a HPR reload though.

The tape disks never stick. I always use masking tape, a couple of pieces crossed over the well to seal in the BP then I put a wrap around the knurled part, over the ends of the tape to make sure it cannot come off.

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Wrong end. The red plastic cap goes over the nozzle and is used to hold the igniter in place. Cut a hole in it (as described in the motor's instructions) to keep it from popping off prematurely and dislodging the igniter, but don't push it on too firmly, or it won't come off at all. You cover the ejection charge well with a piece of masking tape to keep the black powder from leaking out.

It was a Kosdon H155. The kosdon motors do not have a good ejection system. Basically, it's a red cap that goes into the motor well, and you put tape over it.

MarkII said:

Wrong end. The red plastic cap goes over the nozzle and is used to hold the igniter in place. Cut a hole in it (as described in the motor's instructions) to keep it from popping off prematurely and dislodging the igniter, but don't push it on too firmly, or it won't come off at all. You cover the ejection charge well with a piece of masking tape to keep the black powder from leaking out.

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No, he's talking about the red cap that holds the black powder. It goes on the forward closure. I think you're thinking about the bigger yellow caps (at least the ones I've seen are yellow) that used to come with the motors to hold the igniter in place. They no longer come with those, some of the single use motors I've used come with a rubber band instead. The rubber bands never worked for me, I use masking tape (just don't cover the end of the nozzle).

Well, I'm as ready as I'll ever be. My nephew and I got two 24mm and two 29mm RMS motors loaded. Used my new RDDT, it seemed to work well. We got most of the stuff loaded in the truck. Just have to get ice in the morning, stop at McD's, and we'll be on our way!

You ready to go, Kit?

Are you both going for level 1 cert? Good luck and happy landings. I'll be looking for video's tomorrow night! Bill

bill2654 said:

Are you both going for level 1 cert? Good luck and happy landings. I'll be looking for video's tomorrow night! Bill

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No, it's just me going for my Level 1. My nephew is going to fly his first scratch built rocket for the first time, though. Succeed or fail, there'll be lots of photos and videos!

Finally!!!! I was wondering when this so called L1 attempt was going to take place. Time to quit hemmin' and hawin'. You've done all you can do to prepare. Now it's time to practice a little Tin Cup, "Grip It and Rip It". No luck needed. You will be fine. Just don't screw up. Looking forward to ear to ear L1 smiley pics.

qquake2k said:

No, he's talking about the red cap that holds the black powder. It goes on the forward closure. I think you're thinking about the bigger yellow caps (at least the ones I've seen are yellow) that used to come with the motors to hold the igniter in place. They no longer come with those, some of the single use motors I've used come with a rubber band instead. The rubber bands never worked for me, I use masking tape (just don't cover the end of the nozzle).

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I was thinking of the red caps that came with RMS reloads.