Matching igniters for clusters

Well this is a question for those "pro" cluster launchers.I have a 3-24mm cluster that I have built but only launched once and it didn't go so well at 66% power. I used Estes igniters but now I have some Quest "longs" for this rocket.I have managed to match a set of igniters @ 1.8 1.9 & 1.7 resistance but most of my others that I have very quite a bit more from 1.4 to 2.9.So my question is this for those that have lunched and matched there igniters.

What is the variance of igniters resistance that is "allowable" for successful flights(all motors firing)?:confused2:

Just for clarity, are you measuring 1.6, 1.7, 1.8 etc. in Ohms?

I don't have a specific answer for you about variance in resistance, but I will say that I've had excellent success using the Q2G2 Quest ignitors in cluster launches (4 successful launches of triple clusters, so 12 total ignition events, 100%). I use a whip and a modified Estes Electron Beam launch controller with 4 AA batteries. See here for the build thread for the modifications. I include there a video of three Q2G2 ignitors popping simultaneously with it.

The only problem I ever had with using Q2G2 ignitors was when I didn't have them secured into the engine well enough on my first attempt. I had very timidly used the provided straws, and I got a 1/3 ignition. The other two popped out of the engine or something. The ignitors fired, but didn't catch the engines. Somewhere on the forum is a video of a Big Red Max going up on a single A8-3. Gets about 10 feet up then arcs into the crowd... no harm done but was a lesson to keep folks further back.

Taking direction from others here, I now jam those straws in tight. Works like a charm.

Marc

PS: Nice Blue Moon! Be sure to post a launch video

One question - what motors are you using for your cluster? If you are using Estes D12s or E9s, there is no sense in using the long igniters there - they are way too expensive to use on a standard BP cluster. The regular Q2G2 igniters work just fine for a three motor cluster. Like Mark said, don't be too timid in putting in the straws to hold the igniters in. I usually crimp each straw longways with my thumbnail and kind of "fold" it in half lengthwise - it makes it easier to put in that way and still holds just fine. Make sure the igniter is all the way in the motor and push in the straw. Once you have all the igniters in the motors, you can wire the cluster. Just unwind the insulated wires a ways (if you didn't do this before inserting in the motor) and twist one lead from each igniter together. Repeat with the other - the wires are plenty long to reach each other. Then just put on the clips and launch. Remember that Q2G2 igniters (and the Quest "Longs") have a low current threshhold and will fire if you are using a lightbulb (Estes) style continuity checker. If you are using an LED and/or piezo buzzer, you should be fine.

Have fun - I've just this last year discovered how much fun clusters can be and can't wait to launch my Tube Daddy on 3 E9s (I flew it on 3 D12s and it flew great!).

Peartree said:

Just for clarity, are you measuring 1.6, 1.7, 1.8 etc. in Ohms?

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yes sir in ohms

Marc_G said:

PS: Nice Blue Moon! Be sure to post a launch video

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THX Marc I have it set up for night launches with some LED lights on either side.Might try a launch tonight an will post a vid.op:

gpoehlein said:

One question - what motors are you using for your cluster? If you are using Estes D12s or E9s, there is no sense in using the long igniters there - they are way too expensive to use on a standard BP cluster. The regular Q2G2 igniters work just fine for a three motor cluster..........If you are using an LED and/or piezo buzzer, you should be fine.

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I am using E9's with the longs but have some shorts also.Just plan on using the longs because I figured twisting those together would be easier an keep clips away from all that thrust burn.On my first attempt my whip got scorched beyond use an needs rebuilt but figure to just bypass all that an twist leads together.

Purchased a Quest launcher with the battery clip to hook to a 9v lantern battery.Bought it specifically for this rocket.

Wow! Can't wait to see video!

Rocketeer Gator said:

I am using E9's with the longs but have some shorts also.Just plan on using the longs because I figured twisting those together would be easier an keep clips away from all that thrust burn.On my first attempt my whip got scorched beyond use an needs rebuilt but figure to just bypass all that an twist leads together.

Purchased a Quest launcher with the battery clip to hook to a 9v lantern battery.Bought it specifically for this rocket.

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That should work fine - the Quest launcer is a good controller. I'd just save the longs for when you really need them since they are so expensive, but that's just me - I've found the leads on the regular Q2G2 igniters to be plenty long enough to tie all the motors together and still get the ends out from the blast stream. Just remember that three E9s are a baby G!

gpoehlein said:

That should work fine - the Quest launcer is a good controller. I'd just save the longs for when you really need them since they are so expensive, but that's just me - I've found the leads on the regular Q2G2 igniters to be plenty long enough to tie all the motors together and still get the ends out from the blast stream. Just remember that three E9s are a baby G!

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Well heres the launch vid...... https://www.youtube.com/getoffmylastnerve#p/u/6/1yrubMylyjQ

I would have had ground footage but for some reason,maybe someone may know,I was using the long quest igniters,quest launch controller with a 6v battery and soon as I stuck the pin in for continuity SWOOOOOOOOOOSH off went the rocket.Now if I was using an Estes controller I would expect this since higher voltage with a continuity check.Is it because of the use of the 6v battery?!?!?!?:confused2:
Other than that every thing went perfect 100% motor fire!!:bangbang:

Great. HAs sort of a "Blair Witch Rocketry Project" feel to it!

Sorry to hear about the pre-fire. Didn't think Quest controllers would have that problem.

So far I haven't had this issue with my modified electron beam controller (resistor in line with LED for continuity check).

Marc

Marc_G said:

Great. HAs sort of a "Blair Witch Rocketry Project" feel to it!

Sorry to hear about the pre-fire. Didn't think Quest controllers would have that problem.

So far I haven't had this issue with my modified electron beam controller (resistor in line with LED for continuity check).

Marc

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Yea I don't get it...main reason I bought the Quest controller was to avoid what happened last night LOL ...Ohhh well I'll ask some of the "old school" folks from club sport launch today,and have some more vid footage/pix maybe.

A Quest controller will not send enough amps to the igniter during continuity check to fire them, so therre is probably a problem with your controller. Was the firing button stuck or even slightly bumped when you pressed the continuity safety key in?

Check the fucntioning of the controller with no igniter - simply connect the clips together and insert the key. you should get the blinking light and chirping sound. If you do not, then the firing launch button may be stuck down and that is a problem.

You can also test the system with a simple ammeter to see how many amps are delivered during continuity check (with the key in and the launch button NOT pushed in).

With a powerful battery, there is virtually no reason to do a resistance test to try to match igniters when using Estes or Quest igniters since they will fire with fairly low current and your system should be able to deliver MASSIVE amounts of current to fire all igniters in a fraction of a second ('instantly'). If you must wait for igniters to "heat up", then your system is NOT safe for clusters.

Gator:
I'll ditto just about everything Shredvector typed with this addition.

If your using any one of Quests 9volt controllers with a battery drop They will work Perfectly with a 12volt gel-cell or other higher amp delivering wet cell battery. I've been using these controllers with 12Volt batteries for more than a decade without harm to the controller and easily lighting 3 and 4 motor clusters using old standby estes solar igniters.
With the new Quest Q2g2 igniters its even easier with a 12Volt battery. 9volt batterys just can't deliver enough amps to RELIABLY ignite clusters. I'm pretty sure for close to what you spent on that 9volt lantern battery you could have added a couple bucks and had a rechargable 7 amp Hobbico Gel-Cell that'll fit your needs perfectly....about 17 bucks

Using you three closest ohm match should make your cluster igniton situation even easier, but to be honest I've used variations between 1.3 and 2.1 in the same cluster without any problem using a higher amp delivering 12volt battery.
Hope these things help.

PS: Great looking night vehicle. We just had our annual Club Night Launch on Sept 18. What a fun Night!

TYVM Fred & John.....Evidently my fat thumb was on the button,tested controller and appears to be working properly.It was my first time using that controller,it was very dark,and my best guess is YUP I had depressed the launch button while pushing in the continuity pin. Was still a successful flight except for the mud hole I sunk into up to ankle :hot: while retrieving rocket.

P.S. John thats a killer pic of rocket with full moon in background!!