Retrofit a Warlock with a Cluster Mount?

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ThirstyBarbarian

ThirstyBarbarian

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I have a Warlock that is fully built, and I’d like to know if anyone has suggestions for how I could add 2 or 3 motor tubes to the existing motor mount. The rocket is 7.5” in diameter and has a single 38mm motor tube now. At the time this kit was manufactured, the fins went through the wall, but not all the way to the motor tube, so there are not many internal obstructions inside the fin can to worry about. I think I just need a way to drill holes for some 29mm motor mount tubes, but I’m not sure how to get a hole all the way through to the forward centering ring. And if I could get it all the way forward, I’m not sure how to make sure the forward hole would be properly aligned with the rear hole and the axis of the rocket.

Alternatively, do the cluster tubes need to go all the way through? Could I just drill the aft holes and cut the tubes to butt up against the forward ring? I wouldn’t be using the motors in the new cluster tubes for motor eject, so if I removed the ejection charges, would it be ok if the forward end of the tube were closed?

Let it me know if you have any ideas on how to add the cluster motor tubes after the fact.

Also, I would like to be able to air start the outboard cluster motors, so what would be a good way to pass the wires through the already built fin can to the aft end?
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
I have a Warlock that is fully built, and I’d like to know if anyone has suggestions for how I could add 2 or 3 motor tubes to the existing motor mount. The rocket is 7.5” in diameter and has a single 38mm motor tube now. At the time this kit was manufactured, the fins went through the wall, but not all the way to the motor tube, so there are not many internal obstructions inside the fin can to worry about. I think I just need a way to drill holes for some 29mm motor mount tubes, but I’m not sure how to get a hole all the way through to the forward centering ring. And if I could get it all the way forward, I’m not sure how to make sure the forward hole would be properly aligned with the rear hole and the axis of the rocket.

Alternatively, do the cluster tubes need to go all the way through? Could I just drill the aft holes and cut the tubes to butt up against the forward ring? I wouldn’t be using the motors in the new cluster tubes for motor eject, so if I removed the ejection charges, would it be ok if the forward end of the tube were closed?

Let it me know if you have any ideas on how to add the cluster motor tubes after the fact.

Also, I would like to be able to air start the outboard cluster motors, so what would be a good way to pass the wires through the already built fin can to the aft end?
Click to expand...

Buy a new Warlock and build it the way you want it. You could just buy booster and save a little money and use old nose cone.
 
I have gutted mine for various reasons. You can do it. Not sure what you mean by "not all the way to MMT"? Are they fin lock? It would still be cheaper to modify rather than buy new kit. LOC will cut you new CR's for the asking. FYI...this one is wrapped in few layers of 6 oz. glass & a fin tip-to-tip.

IMG_3364.jpg

IMG_3353.jpg
 
timbucktoo said:
I have gutted mine for various reasons. You can do it. Not sure what you mean by "not all the way to MMT"? Are they fin lock? It would still be cheaper to modify rather than buy new kit. LOC will cut you new CR's for the asking. FYI...this one is wrapped in few layers of 6 oz. glass & a fin tip-to-tip.
Click to expand...

It maybe cheaper. But I would think you can do a better build with a new booster.
 
timbucktoo said:
I have gutted mine for various reasons. You can do it. Not sure what you mean by "not all the way to MMT"? Are they fin lock? It would still be cheaper to modify rather than buy new kit. LOC will cut you new CR's for the asking. FYI...this one is wrapped in few layers of 6 oz. glass & a fin tip-to-tip.
Click to expand...

I’m hoping not to have to tear out the guts and start over. If it came to that, I’d just leave this one as is and buy a new one. What I meant about the fin tabs not going all the way to the motor mount tube, is that mine used the loc-n-tab, or whatever they call it, like the one in your picture. In other words, you don’t have to worry too much about where the fin tabs would be when drilling the holes for additional motor tubes.
 
Drill the holes, insert the tubes, as long as they arent be used for motor deploy the tubes dont need to go all the way through. To strengthen where the new tubes butt against the forward centering ring, put a bulkhead inside the new motor tubes forward end to increase the gluing area. Double check that all tubes are inline with the axis of the airframe.
 
Get your bad self a hole saw set. Experiment with them in some scrap plywood to see which hole saw size fits the tightest with 29mm motor tube exterior diameter. The bottom ones will be easy. Now I'm venturing into unfamiliar territory here... How many CR's? You can get a 3/8" drive keyless drill chuck and some longer 3/8" extensions to drill the forward ring, or maybe just start a bit of depth to seat the tube, depending upon fit. Drilling for conduit would be easy, as you can find extra long drill bits in varying sizes. But the big question is: where are you planning to keep the air start timer? Conventional placement is between the fins, but cutting a door into an already built fincan will be tougher since you will be hard pressed to get a piece of coupler tube (the traditional method of door frame backing) in there. My advice: Start drinking heavily... NONONo, wrong advice... Go for it. Drill the holes in the back end first. If nothing else, you've lightened up the back end :wink:
 
Make a pattern with some poster board. Clock it with a fixed item accessible from both ends such as the rail buttons. The pattern will need to be marked on both sides.

Would be easier & cheaper to build a new one using a "payload bay" (only on section of tube), new rings, fins & motor tubes. Swap your nose cone between the 2...
 
Just epoxy the new motor mounts to the outside of the body tube in between the fins and glue a NC in the top of each one. What’s a little extra drag on a Warlock?
 
rharshberger said:
Drill the holes, insert the tubes, as long as they arent be used for motor deploy the tubes dont need to go all the way through. To strengthen where the new tubes butt against the forward centering ring, put a bulkhead inside the new motor tubes forward end to increase the gluing area. Double check that all tubes are inline with the axis of the airframe.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking. I also thought that if I used bulkheads in the motor tubes, I wouldn’t even have to go all the way to the forward centering ring. I could glue the retainers onto the motor tubes, insert the tubes into the holes until the retainers are tight against the aft ring, glue them in place, and then maybe secure everything internally with some foam in the fin can.
 
ThirstyBarbarian said:
This is exactly what I was thinking. I also thought that if I used bulkheads in the motor tubes, I wouldn’t even have to go all the way to the forward centering ring. I could glue the retainers onto the motor tubes, insert the tubes into the holes until the retainers are tight against the aft ring, glue them in place, and then maybe secure everything internally with some foam in the fin can.
Click to expand...
That would probably work.
 
jd2cylman said:
Get your bad self a hole saw set. Experiment with them in some scrap plywood to see which hole saw size fits the tightest with 29mm motor tube exterior diameter. The bottom ones will be easy. Now I'm venturing into unfamiliar territory here... How many CR's? You can get a 3/8" drive keyless drill chuck and some longer 3/8" extensions to drill the forward ring, or maybe just start a bit of depth to seat the tube, depending upon fit. Drilling for conduit would be easy, as you can find extra long drill bits in varying sizes. But the big question is: where are you planning to keep the air start timer? Conventional placement is between the fins, but cutting a door into an already built fincan will be tougher since you will be hard pressed to get a piece of coupler tube (the traditional method of door frame backing) in there. My advice: Start drinking heavily... NONONo, wrong advice... Go for it. Drill the holes in the back end first. If nothing else, you've lightened up the back end :wink:
Click to expand...

Drinking heavily is how I get started on these ideas! Now is the execution part...

Now I’m leaning toward not even drilling through the forward centering ring for the motor tubes, so all I would need would be the right size of hole saw. All I would need would be the extra long bit for the conduit.

Can the airstart timer go in a forward electronics bay? I won a head end bay for an LOC 7.5” nose cone, so I’m thinking about practicing with electronic deployment with that. I have zero experience with electronic deployment and airstarts, so I don’t know the issues involved, but I think sometimes you can use the same timer for both airstarts and deployment.
 
T-Rex said:
Make a pattern with some poster board. Clock it with a fixed item accessible from both ends such as the rail buttons. The pattern will need to be marked on both sides.

Would be easier & cheaper to build a new one using a "payload bay" (only on section of tube), new rings, fins & motor tubes. Swap your nose cone between the 2...
Click to expand...

I’m running into a little bit of a storage issue with the larger rockets so I’m hoping to not add too much more to the garage. If I can make the existing booster work, I think I’ll try to go that way.
 
crossfire said:
Just giving you a hard time. I myself have rebuilt many rockets. Its kind of fun. When you get it done post some pictures.
Click to expand...

This rocket has had so many repairs, I feel like I’ve rebuilt it already! I originally bought this Warlock a couple years ago to do my L2. I finally certed at LDRS a couple weeks ago. But before the successful cert, I had a few mishaps and many repairs. It looks like it’s been through a war! That’s why I’m not too concerned about drilling into it for an experiment.
 
Swissyhawk said:
Just epoxy the new motor mounts to the outside of the body tube in between the fins and glue a NC in the top of each one. What’s a little extra drag on a Warlock?
Click to expand...

If I put the additional motors on the outside, they’re going ON the fins, not between them! Seriously, this experiment with airstarts is a step toward building a rocket with motors in pods on the fins...
 

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