Shipping

[Scotty Dog]

I would think a sporting goods store, one thats sells ammo and gun powders could recieve and ship the big motors and propellants? Scotty Dog

[troj]

I would think a sporting goods store, one thats sells ammo and gun powders could recieve and ship the big motors and propellants?

Receive, yes, but ship? Probably not.

-Kevin

[shreadvector]

They are different items and the regulations for shipping different items are different.

Rocket motors or reload kits are classified in a certain manner and must be shipped according to the appropriate regulations.

The Model Rocket information is summarized on the NAR shipping info document:
http://www.nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

For High Power shipping, you should consult a HAZMAT expert or get some verifiable factual information from someone who knows. For instance, Aerotech should be able to provide you with plenty of information on their larger products and how they properly ship them and what someone else would have to do to comply with the laws and regulations.

[bobkrech]

Receiving and shipping hazmat are two entirely different things. I do both.

Anyone can receive a hazmat item as the end user provided they can legally possess the item, however only an individual trained in hazmat shipping can legally ship them.

As the end user of a hazmat you have no legal liability concerning the shipment unless you conspired with the shipper to illegally ship the hazmat, however as the hazmat shipper, you personally have both civil and criminal liable for any inappropriate or illegal hazmat shipments even if you are working for a business involved in hazmat shipments! Fines for a single shipment can top $500,000 per shipment and can include significant jail time and a felony conviction.

Shipping large rocket motors is a particularly expensive enterprise. Unless you can ship them under a DOT Special Hazmat Permit by common carrier, you need to hire an exclusive-use explosives truck for the shipment of large rocket motors or propellants, and it is expensive.

I am currently receiving a hazmat shipment of 3 kilograms of a UN0495 1.3C liquid rocket propellant for a DoD program. It is being shipped from a US Government facility on the West Coast to my company on the East Coast via a FedEx Critical Care White Glove Service exclusive-use 12' 2-man truck. Cost of the government furnished propellant: $0.00, cost of the non-stop 64 hour, 2960 mile delivery: $7165.62! Ouch! however the cost for not going this route is even more expensive: A felony conviction and long vacation with room, board and clothing provided by our favorite uncle.

So you want to ship large rocket motor......

Yuz gots to pay big time to play big time......

Still want in?

Bob

[sunward]

....As the end user of a hazmat you have no legal liability concerning the shipment unless you conspired with the shipper to illegally ship the hazmat...

Question for you.

The shipper is always responsible. But if someone receives, on more than one occasion, hazmat goods that are shipped via normal methods, is the receiver now liable also?

...Yuz gots to pay big time to play big time.....

oh yes.

[ScrapDaddy]

Can a normal person, such an myself, without any certifications, send a pack of B6 motors to my buddy Mark by putting it in a cardboard box, going to the post office and notify the person who takes the package that the box contain a "toy propellent device" and ship it?

[shreadvector]

Can a normal person, such an myself, without any certifications, send a pack of B6 motors to my buddy Mark by putting it in a cardboard box, going to the post office and notify the person who takes the package that the box contain a "toy propellent device" and ship it?

NO!

You would know this if you read the information contained in post number 3 of this thread.

And this time, i am indeed using a "tone": one of frustration that the information was clearly provided and ignored. We can give you food, but we cannot chew it for you and swallow it for you. (Actually, that food was chewed for you...)

[ScrapDaddy]

NO!

You would know this if you read the information contained in post number 3 of this thread.

And this time, i am indeed using a "tone": one of frustration that the information was clearly provided and ignored. We can give you food, but we cannot chew it for you and swallow it for you. (Actually, that food was chewed for you...)

I think I missed that....

But I also found somthing interesting reading that "The USPS WILL accept small rocket motors for shipment by an individual, but under LIMITED CERCUMSTANCES.
1st, the motors must contain no more than 30 grams of propellent, and must be packaged to their standards and marked aproriatly.
2nd, you must have a note of authentication from the USPS manager of mail preparations and standards, which takes 30-60 days, and you must send the safety sheet for every motor type you plan to ship.....blah blah blah... The the note will be valid for 1 year.....blah blah......"

[troj]

But I also found somthing interesting reading that "The USPS WILL accept small rocket motors for shipment by an individual, but under LIMITED CERCUMSTANCES.

Yes, there are provisions that make it possible for limited shipments. But it's a lot of paperwork, and even then, there's no guarantee you'll ever get granted the paperwork.

Plus you'll have to purchase all the labels and whatnot in order to properly mark the shipment.

-Kevin

[bobkrech]

Question for you.

The shipper is always responsible. But if someone receives, on more than one occasion, hazmat goods that are shipped via normal methods, is the receiver now liable also?....

That's ultimately a legal question and I'm not a lawyer.

Bob

[Mike Di Venti]

Your best bet is to ask your on-site vendor if would ship the motors for you.(if he can)
Remember that there's an additional haz-mat fee for motors over 30gm of propellant.
Work out the shipping cost with whoever is receiving them.

[bobkrech]

Your best bet is to ask your on-site vendor if would ship the motors for you.(if he can)
Remember that there's an additional haz-mat fee for motors over 30gm of propellant.
Work out the shipping cost with whoever is receiving them.

Attached are the folks in the US that can ship 1.4S model rocket motors under DOT-SP7887 http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles...2008040558.pdf and most 1.3C high power rocket motors under DOT-SP10996 http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles...2010010829.pdf by common carriers in non-exclusive shipments. It requires special POP packaging, labeling, marking and documentation, and there is the standard $25 hazmat fee in addition to the normal shipping charges. (You will be charged a $25 hazmat fee for any common carrier hazmat shipment. There is no 30 g exemption for common carrier rocket motor shipments.)

The special permits appear to allow a vendor to reship orders obtained from a manufacturer to a third party, but it is does not appear that they can ship items from a third party unless they are signatories to the special permit.

Bob

[ghrocketman]

What a load.
Either ANYONE/ANY Entity should be able to ship grains 30.0g or less through USPS "Parcel Post" ground WITHOUT any extra baloney or NOBODY should be able to.
The paperwork and red tape accomplishes virtually nothing but perpetuate useless gubmint red tape.