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  1. #1
    Join Date
    12th May 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3

    Design of bottom clay in sugar rocket to get more height

    I am new to rocketry. I have been experimenting with KNO3+Sugar with medium success (no explosions, but also nothing over 100meters high).

    I am using the King of Random concept. My current design is as per the left image. I think most of my issue has been that the clay in the bottom bursts out, so I now rough up the pipe on the inside a little to give it grip. But should I also countersink/flange (not sure of the correct term) it a little?



    thanks
    Matt


  2. #2
    Join Date
    27th March 2013
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    Hi Matt,

    You're not going to get help like that here. Due to the liability issues that your question involves, that question belongs in the "Advanced Research Topics" subforum, and you need to qualify to be admitted to there. This is for your own safety, for the safety of others, and the hobby.

    To qualify, you need to meet these conditions (and as an Aussie, I don't think you'll be able to join (unless you're American born)).

    Research Forum Access

    TRF now hosts a restricted forum related to Research Motors. Requirements for access are:

    1) NAR or TRA senior member
    2) US Person (US Citizen or US Permanent Resident (Green Card Holder))
    3) High Power Certification (Level 1, 2 or 3)

    To request access to the forum, please send an email to trfrequest@gmail.com, (or use CONTACT US or contact mod or admin) including
    1.) your TRF username, the
    2.) email address associated with your TRF account and
    3.) a statement that you are a US Citizen or US Person, requesting access to the Research forum. You must also attach
    4.) a scan or picture of your current NAR or TRA Membership card, that shows HPR certification. A picture of the card taken with a digital camera or phone is fine, as long as the card image is legible.

    Please allow up to a week for access to be granted -- we're all volunteers and things come up.

    Please do not include scans of identification cards (driver's license, passport, etc)

    If you are a parent/legal guardian/older sibling of someone who does not qualify for access, allowing someone otherwise not eligible for access to use your account to access the Research forum will result in permanent loss of access to the Research forum.

    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  3. #3
    Join Date
    12th May 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3
    cool, thanks for your help.

    (not American)
    Matt

  4. #4
    Join Date
    27th March 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Benett View Post
    cool, thanks for your help.

    (not American)
    Matt
    No problem. If you want to talk about commercial motor recommendations, building rockets (not the motors, but the airframe), simulating designs, etc., we'll be happy to help.

    Try contacting your local (or national) clubs to see if they've got a place for you to discuss your motor building experiments safely.

    Pointy Side Up!
    Jim
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  5. #5
    Join Date
    14th March 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,396
    K'Tesh, ITAR rules have one additional requirement to 2) in your list; you must be a U.S. citizen AND actually be in the U.S. U.S. citizens on foreign soil are in violation of ITAR if they possess ITAR restricted information without the proper approvals. This includes having physical paperwork or drawings, hard drives on computers, zip drives as well as accessing electronic information from outside the U.S.

    So K'Tesh, if you have access to the research forum you may be in violation of ITAR if you access it from China. I say you may be as it depends on what you look at on that sub forum.
    Zeus-cat
    NAR# 92125 L1
    Total Impulse for 2018: 491.6 N/s Flights: 10
    2017: 1/2A:0, A:2, B:1, C:2, D:2, E:1, F:1, G: I have NEVER launched a G motor, H:0, I:1

  6. #6
    Join Date
    11th April 2017
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    772
    Matt, what state are you in? The Australian Model Rocket Society has clubs in several states.

    I also started with a randomizer a little over a year ago (with commercial Estes motors) and then joined the Qld Rocketry Society after asking questions not unlike yours.

    Rocket motor development is actually illegal in AU as far as I am aware. The QRS guys put me onto a better path.

    In the last year Iíve flown LPR kits, LPR scratch builds, MPR clones and am now HPR L1 certified and wandering my way slowly to L2...

    Thereís plenty of fun to have and heaps to learn without making your own motors...
    Reasonably new to rocketry and hailing from the land down under.. I speak metric... I know not of these feet and inches you speak of...

    QRS: #193
    AMRS: #148

    AMRS L1 (2018-03-18 - Mk4 Rocket Propelled Companion Pod)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    27th March 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-cat View Post
    So K'Tesh, if you have access to the research forum you may be in violation of ITAR if you access it from China. I say you may be as it depends on what you look at on that sub forum.
    I would be, if I had access to the research forum, but I don't. I never tried to access it.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  8. #8
    Join Date
    11th February 2018
    Location
    Guelph
    Posts
    60
    You want the clay to burst out... This implies too much internal pressure. Blowing out the nozzle is much better than the casing rupturing - especially pvc which I recently learned is transparent to X-rays when they go looking for the shrapnel.

    Use google - youíll find no info here but there are lots and lots of tutorials out there about making decent clay nozzles, propellant design, internal pressures etc. It has all been done before and tested to death. The motor design advocated on the King of Random using packed propellant and pvc casings is neither safe nor particularly effective.

    I started down this path over the winter and gave up. Lots of fire and smoke - not much else. You save a few bucks but itís not worth the hassle for low power stuff... The economics are different if youíre casting very large grains and have access to inexpensive raw materials.


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