City apartment + Black Powder. Advice?

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Hi all,

I currently live in an apartment in Boston, but I'd like to get into HPR... which seems like it requires black powder.

However, storing Black Powder (you know, an explosive) is obviously a bad idea.

What have you guys found as a workable solution to this?
 
But seriously, as you live in the area with four good clubs that support HPR (3 NAR and 1 TRA) you should be able to find one or more club members who would be glad to hold and transport your powder or split a can with you, as necessary. Many of our HPR flyers have good attendance records at most every launch and there could always arrange with someone to share with you in a pinch.
 
I keep my bottle in a small popcorn tin inside a mess of dogbarf and wadding sheets inside a large popcorn tin.

Haven't tested the theory, but I'm fairly certain if a fire gets in there and lets the magic out we were already goners.
 
Back up a minute

I'd like to get into HPR... which seems like it requires black powder.

Not at all. People use it with dual deploy setups, but you can do high power without dual deploy. If you're concerned about recovery / walking a long way Google "Chute Release" which gives you some of the same benefits and is also a very useful thing for mid power.

(Before somebody pedantic chimes in, yes, the motor ejection charges are black powder but he's talking about a can of the stuff)
 
I keep my bottle in a small popcorn tin inside a mess of dogbarf and wadding sheets inside a large popcorn tin.
JIC OP doesn't know... Dogbarf is the nickname for cellulose insulation material used as ejection wadding.
 
I too live in a New England highly urban area and I'm in a condo. For my first year of hpr I didn't keep any bp myself and just bought it from amw (onsite vendor) each time at the mmmsc launches. That works just fine but it slows you down for sure. I eventually gave in and bought a black powder storage flask and 60g or so at a time from amw. I do worry about whether this would affect my insurance in a fire, but I do try and store a small enough amount that it isn't going to make a fire much worse.
 
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Not at all. People use it with dual deploy setups, but you can do high power without dual deploy. If you're concerned about recovery / walking a long way Google "Chute Release" which gives you some of the same benefits and is also a very useful thing for mid power.
Yea, no.

First, On the East Coast dual deploy is pretty much imperative due to small fields, and most require dd above 1500 - 2000 feet (at least 2 of the ones that's closest to the OP do)
Second, the chute release is really a midpower thing and maybe really small high powered rocket. You're not doing that with a 60 inch or greater chute.
if you roll down to cato or metra I'll take care of you, both with motors and black powder.
 
I use a small container for matches, typically a camping supply item you can get a walmart. This is for small amounts that i take to launches, the main container is in one of those ammo boxes you can get a walmart aswell.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stormpro...66001f5-fd6f5b53-f3261c5da7e5995e&athena=true
Is it a metal or plastic ammo can, metal bad and plastic is okay. In the event of a fire a metal ammo can does prevent sparks from getting to the cantainer of BP however once the BP ignites the metal can becomes shrapnel capable of penetrating interior walls quite easily. Its best to store BP (Smokeless powders too) only in their original container and not inside a tight secomured box. In the event it does explode there needs to be outlet for the pressure. Smokeless and BP containers are design to fail in a specific manner.
 
I've used a chute release with a 78" chute.

[YOUTUBE]51iWrVTerfI[/YOUTUBE]
 
Hi, Teyrana.

I, too, live in an apartment in Boston, and because of that, I don't mess with black powder. I do have a Jolly Logic Chute Release, which works great for a lot of HPR applications. I got my L1 at a CMASS launch last year with it.

PM me. Let's grab a coffee some time and talk rockets. If neither of us thinks the other one is a total weirdo, maybe you can come check out my in-apartment workshop some time.
 
You Bostonians might want to discretely check out the local legal ramifications involved in the possession of black powder in your municipality. Hopefully there are no unreasonable restrictions. A few years ago a Gentleman was arrested in Washington, DC for possessing a box of musket balls and a single 12 gauge shotgun shell. The shotgun shell was a dud where the primer had been struck without ignition of the shell. These items were in his condo. There were no firearms.

This Gentleman was subjected to a full trial which attracted national attention. Hopefully Boston isn’t as wacky as DC.

Best set of Luck,
Bob
 
If you don't want to rely on motor ejection, you can dump the charge from the motor and use an altimeter for apogee ejection using the BP you took from the motor, and then a chute release for the main. Some New England states have strict(ridiculous) laws concerning all things firearms, may be worth checking it out.

Yea, no.

First, On the East Coast dual deploy is pretty much imperative due to small fields, and most require dd above 1500 - 2000 feet (at least 2 of the ones that's closest to the OP do)
Second, the chute release is really a midpower thing and maybe really small high powered rocket. You're not doing that with a 60 inch or greater chute.
if you roll down to cato or metra I'll take care of you, both with motors and black powder.

Uhm.,..no

Is motor eject an then a chute release for the main not dual deploy in some form? Extra BP is not needed.
I must be doing this HPR thing all wrong. So far I have only gone over 2000 feet a handful of times. And my chute release recently rode in my Tembo with an I170. Far from mid power I would say and didn't hit 2500. My Tyrannosaur weighs nearly 10lbs and is a J-K rocket, and some high thrust I's. I'm fully confident the chute release will work on it as well, just need a bigger or augmented band.
 
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Okay, wow... that was more replies than I expected :p

But seriously, as you live in the area with four good clubs that support HPR (3 NAR and 1 TRA) you should be able to find one or more club members who would be glad to hold and transport your powder or split a can with you, as necessary. Many of our HPR flyers have good attendance records at most every launch and there could always arrange with someone to share with you in a pinch.

Honestly, I like this idea best (in combination with the amw guy). I'll see how that works. BTW, does MMSC have a mailing list I should be subscribed to?

But now that I know that's an option, I can start planning for L2 validation flights :)

The whole motivation came from searching for 1h+ for my L1 rocket.... And I vowed to never go through that ordeal again! (But, hey! I did get the qual ^^)


For further replys:
- Thanks, I had forgotten WTH "dog barf" was :p
- I *do* have a JollyLogic ChuteRelease. I clearly need to use it more.
- @K'Tesh - I recognize you from the openrocket-list. Thanks for the bug reports :D
- @ lcorinth - Nice! I'll pm you :)
 
BTW, does MMSC have a mailing list I should be subscribed to?

The MMMSC pres primarily uses the club's Facebook page for getting info out. I try to post relevant info and launches here on TRF with MMMSC in the title. The club website has a pretty good calendar on it but it's just a blog page so not great for communication.

You'll get a lot out of sitting down with Icorinth.
 
You Bostonians might want to discretely check out the local legal ramifications involved in the possession of black powder in your municipality. Hopefully there are no unreasonable restrictions. A few years ago a Gentleman was arrested in Washington, DC for possessing a box of musket balls and a single 12 gauge shotgun shell. The shotgun shell was a dud where the primer had been struck without ignition of the shell. These items were in his condo. There were no firearms.

This Gentleman was subjected to a full trial which attracted national attention. Hopefully Boston isn’t as wacky as DC.

Best set of Luck,
Bob

This is kind of on track of what I think the OP was after. What are the ramifications of storing HPR rocket items in an apartment building.

Check the local fire codes! This is the one place where you will find out what you can and can't do. BP, reloads and SU motors may all be illegal in apartment buildings in your area depending on size. The local fire inspector is the one to go to. What may be legal in your single family home may be illegal in a condo or apartment depending on local ordinances.

The way insurance companies tend to work, if you're legal they will pay, if you're illegal, they won't.
 
@rocketsam2016

Well spotted! I'm wondering if those laws may be phrased just-in-case. I mean, a close reading also suggests my cooking oil is illegal, as is the propane in my lighters....

Plus, APCP (aka composite HPR motors) are technically not explosives ;)
https://www.pro38.com/regulations.php

Soooo, it may not be technically illegal, but I at least have a decent argument. I guess I was more asking about the practical-ness of it all.
Black powder *seems* more dangerous, but based on the reactions in this thread, I guess I was overly cautious.
 
@rocketsam2016

OH!

Check it out:

1.12.8.39 Explosives, Fireworks and Model Rocketry.
...
1.12.8.39.1.1.4 Permits Not Required. Permits shall not be required for the following:
...
(2) Small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder stored in original containers
and stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use as provided in Section 1.12.8.50.


(this does seem to contradict the table you reference. hmmmm.)
----

And then, in table:
Table 1.12.8.50 Permit and/or License Thresholds.

It lists the threshold for permitting and/or license as "<2 lbs" of black powder.

So I think that's the break point between "Permit not required" and the "Fire Chief Approval" categories.


All in all, that's a bit more relaxed than I expected!
 
The laws in Massachusetts regarding BP are pretty lax. As long as you are careful with it (ie, no smoking while making DD charges) you should be ok. You don't even need a firearms permit, or any kind of permit for that matter, to purchase BP in Ma.
 
@rocketsam2016

OH!

Check it out:

1.12.8.39 Explosives, Fireworks and Model Rocketry.
...
1.12.8.39.1.1.4 Permits Not Required. Permits shall not be required for the following:
...
(2) Small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder stored in original containers
and stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use as provided in Section 1.12.8.50.


(this does seem to contradict the table you reference. hmmmm.)
----

And then, in table:
Table 1.12.8.50 Permit and/or License Thresholds.

It lists the threshold for permitting and/or license as "<2 lbs" of black powder.

So I think that's the break point between "Permit not required" and the "Fire Chief Approval" categories.


All in all, that's a bit more relaxed than I expected!

Great catch! So the good news is, as you point out, the fire laws seem to allow storage of BP.

The bad news is
1) Those same fire laws seem to require a permit for storing high power motors or reloadable motors of any size (see the second to last row of the table I linked to)
2) these are just fire code laws. Iiuc you are supposed to have a gun license as well to have black powder. Ma considers it "ammunition". I am not a law or gun law expert however.
 
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