Sugar vs. APCP

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
So you've ridden a 50cc scooter and it sure was fun and so now you want to ride a 1000cc motorcycle. When people that race motorcycles on the weekends ask you what fuel you'll be using, you answer "wet". Those same people then suggest you go to the track and talk to people that race on a regular basis and you don't want to because you watched all the races on youtube and you now know how to race. Can you see how this looks?

I get what you're saying but in defense I actually used to be good at racing
 
I've actually decided to do a 2 stage Sugar instead. Since y'all insist that I will kill myself, I've changed my mind. Besides, I have sugar propellant laying around, that way I don't have to buy anything new.

Good luck & be sure to let us know how it goes.
 
Once you're 18, you can join Tripoli and become L2 all in a single weekend. Go that route and by the time you're ready to get your first degree from college, you'll have amassed enough knowledge to either do what you want successfully, change/redesign your goals to something more realistic or be well on your way. If you do it successfully, I think everyone here will cheer you on.
 
I'm so thankful the internet was not around when I was a kid. I use to read books about anything and know I could do it better if I only had whatever I needed. The internet brings ideas to you faster than common sense and experience can apply the brakes. Simmer down out there young ones, simmer down.
 
I'm so thankful the internet was not around when I was a kid. I use to read books about anything and know I could do it better if I only had whatever I needed. The internet brings ideas to you faster than common sense and experience can apply the brakes. Simmer down out there young ones, simmer down.

I came very very close to burning my house down as a kid playing with KnS and sugar - long before I knew it could be used as a propellant.

YouTube makes this stuff look fun and “educational”. Trust me, there is nothing fun about an errant spark falling into a large batch of KnS in your kitchen - though it was quite educational.
 
I came very very close to burning my house down as a kid playing with KnS and sugar - long before I knew it could be used as a propellant.

YouTube makes this stuff look fun and “educational”. Trust me, there is nothing fun about an errant spark falling into a large batch of KnS in your kitchen - though it was quite educational.

I had something similar when I was adding a burn rate catalyst. My order of operations was not correct and rather than just changing the burn rate once cured, it flashed the entire batch all at once. I was outside but having a pound of KNSB go all at once is very educational.
 
I certainly understand the fire risks of sugar propellant. But I have gotten bad burns from the hot mixture on my hands. Now I wear cotton gloves, welding long sleeve shirt and leather apron.
 
My immediate concern is, if all this does come together, are you just going out to some farmer's field to launch this thing?

Do you have the required paperwork?
 
I'm launching it at F.A.R

Do they know that yet? I could be wrong, but I don't think FAR has an FAA waiver for 100k ft. Most stuff that high is launched at Black Rock.

Regardless, there is a lot of great KNSU stuff that is tested at FAR. Go there, get a mentor, and worry about the fundraising later. This project is going to take years to complete. Enjoy the learning process.
 
Take a look at the requirements for joining the research forum. You will (or should) understand why you need to walk before you run.

So basically non american people have no chance in learning from research forum ?
 
I could be wrong, but I don't think FAR has an FAA waiver for 100k ft.
Their standing waiver is for 50K feet but I assume there is some mechanism to get a higher one on a case-by-case basis. Of course how hard that would be I have no idea -- at Black Rock most of the work is done by the TRA Class 3 committee.
 
So basically non american people have no chance in learning from research forum ?

Sadly, that is correct. The U.S. government has strict rules about releasing certain types of weapon technology to people outside the U.S. Rocket fuels is one of the things that is considered sensitive information.
 
Looks like Elon is one step ahead of you...

elon_candy.jpg
 
Someone please direct me on how I can earn my way to the research forum. I have a long way to go only things accomplished:
- joined NAR
- joined HPR rocket club
- working on level 1 & 2 cert rockets
- looking to gain more experience prior to level 3 and beyond
 
I've actually decided to do a 2 stage Sugar instead. Since y'all insist that I will kill myself, I've changed my mind. Besides, I have sugar propellant laying around, that way I don't have to buy anything new.

I have experience with Sugar and 2 stage rockets. No worries. If you approve, I still need funding, and I've fixed all the errors in the post that you called out.

WOW! let me rephrase this the way I see it.
1. I'm a teenager
2. I don't take advice
3. I want to do something I'm not qualified to do (go get your certs, young man)
4. I want YOU to pay for me to PLAY (and probably get hurt)

Ok, commend your brass ones but seriously, I've got at least a thousand ways to spend my money more wisely...but PT Barnum said........
 
Someone please direct me on how I can earn my way to the research forum. I have a long way to go only things accomplished:
- joined NAR
- joined HPR rocket club
- working on level 1 & 2 cert rockets
- looking to gain more experience prior to level 3 and beyond

If you want to make your own motors you should join Tripoli. NAR members are not covered by the NAR insurance if they use non-commercial motors.
 
Someone please direct me on how I can earn my way to the research forum. I have a long way to go only things accomplished:
- joined NAR
- joined HPR rocket club
- working on level 1 & 2 cert rockets
- looking to gain more experience prior to level 3 and beyond
Earn your lvl 2 certification.
Forum rules don't require L2 for Research/Experimental access. Any HPR cert will do for that qualification.
 
I've actually decided to do a 2 stage Sugar instead. Since y'all insist that I will kill myself, I've changed my mind. Besides, I have sugar propellant laying around, that way I don't have to buy anything new.

I have experience with Sugar and 2 stage rockets. No worries. If you approve, I still need funding, and I've fixed all the errors in the post that you called out.


Killing yourself is not the only worry. Should something go ( very wrong, the list is long) and you survive there will be legal ramifications for yourself or parents.
 
Anyone can be anyone on the internet and write anything, thankfully this forum has great requirements for Research area. Keep up the good work. Besides anyone could find our Canada friend. His website has a cornucopia of data etc.
 
how much better is APCP than Sugar.
Thanks

Depending on the motors and propellant mixtures you're comparing, a given mass of APCP should deliver 2-2.4 times as much impulse as the same mass of sugar propellant.
IOW, in free space, a rocket loaded with APCP will acquire 2-2.4 times the deltaV as the same rocket powered with the same mass of sugar propellant.
Near earth, the actual DeltaV will depend on thrust curve shape and duration, as well as drag characteristics and stability.
(If thrust time is arbitrarily short, the earthly performance should match free space performance WRT velocity. Thatt's not necessarily the best way of achieving altitude, though.)

I see nothing wrong with your asking this question, and I see nothing wrong with answering the question.

In fact, your question is so fundamental that you should be asking many more questions before you start your project.

Out of curiosity, how is it that you decided on your goal of reaching 100K feet(?) on an 8" motor, given that you don't have a clear picture of available performance?
Seems arbitrary to me. Maybe I'm mistaken.

Regards,
-LarryC
 
100k do you really think it is that easily to do with sugar ISP@130 or less hate to be an ass but most replies to this thread have not a clue..crap that is not even close to space let alone LEO.. you will need aprox 20+ thousands pound to get the tangent velocity to make LEO and that does not include rocket, pay load and so on.. Yes I understand going straight up is different than orbit insertion . Straight up then down. ie. ballistic missiles but I think they are shooting for 5000 miles so they can hit the earth anywhere . I am sure I do not known anything but heck math seems eternal.
Bill + Irish Whiskey
 
Back
Top