Reloads or single use?

I have been looking at the cost of Single Use vs. Reload motors and am leaning towards Aero Tech Single Use motors. I do not have any hardware at this time and I am new. I see more varieties with reloads but an initial cost savings with Single Use motors. My first HPR is the Madcow Avalanche which I won't be able to build until July due to work schedule. What say you folks of much more experience than I?

Depends on your goals. SU are more expensive than a reload, but reloads require hardware. If you fly a lot, and plan to stay in the hobby, reloads are far more cost-effective. However, that assumes you build them correctly and don't cato your hardware. Also, losing your rocket means losing your hardware, so tracking becomes important, as well as dual deployment for closer landings.

People who stay LPR may never fly a reload in their lives, and that's cool. But if you are planning on certifying and moving up to bigger and more powerful rockets, then reloads are a must.

Another thing to consider is where you buy motors. If you buy SU from an onsite vendor, then that is way cheaper than paying HAZMAT fees. But many reloads ship HAZMAT-free, depending on the size of the grain, whereas most larger SU motors require HAZMAT.

So, if you come back with answers to those questions (where do you buy? do you plan to grow in HPR? are you willing to invest in tracking an DD? do you fly often or plan to?), then you might get some more fine-tuned advice.

I am going to use a single use M for Level3 attempt. Since I do research motors except for certs I do not want to buy the hardware. As far as your question, I would buy the hardware for 38, 54 ect. so many options then
Bill

As far as Hazmat, I believe Loki has 38mm reloads that do not require.

r66astro said:

As far as Hazmat, I believe Loki has 38mm reloads that do not require.

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As does Aerotech.

Bat-mite summed it up well. Reloads take time to build and you can screw them up if you aren't careful. I recommend having an experienced flyer help you for the first few that you assemble. I have only used reloads for high power and don't mind building the motors - except when its 10 degrees at the field.

Zeus-cat said:

Bat-mite summed it up well. Reloads take time to build and you can screw them up if you aren't careful. I recommend having an experienced flyer help you for the first few that you assemble. I have only used reloads for high power and don't mind building the motors - except when its 10 degrees at the field.

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If you sit closer to the burn barrel your hands won’t get cold building motors.

I love the the simplicity of SU motors. A handful of G78, G77, G79, G80... walk out with a stack of flight cards and you can prep in the field and walk right back to the pads. Of course that handful of G motors costs around $100. And you can get about five H reloads for the 29/240 case for that... so I got a ton of 29mm hardware used. As much as I like SU, it’s much more cost effective in my eyes to pick up 29/180, 29/240, and 29/360 cases and fly them like crazy

FlyBy01 said:

I have been looking at the cost of Single Use vs. Reload motors and am leaning towards Aero Tech Single Use motors. I do not have any hardware at this time and I am new. I see more varieties with reloads but an initial cost savings with Single Use motors. My first HPR is the Madcow Avalanche which I won't be able to build until July due to work schedule. What say you folks of much more experience than I?

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As others pointed it - many variables come into the equation.

The common pattern is that we all started with single use motors of one flavor or anothers (e.g.: Estes), then most moved onto to reload motors & hardware for cost saving and motor variety reasons. But only for the motor sizes we fly most frequently (e.g.: Aerotech 29/60-120 case). And stay single use for others.

Nothing wrong with either approach.
Do whatever makes you, and your wallet, happy!

a

It does sting a bit when you can't recover/locate a rocket with a 54mm 6G case in it...

:sad:

I buy SU motors for all my MPR rockets. I don't do HPR. When I weigh the cost factor, it's a long run issue before you really start saving any money on reloads. You have hardware investments, HAZ costs, and you'll spend most of your flying time under the canopy loading and cleaning hardware casings. I usually buy my SU's from Ken who usually shows up at the launches. In fact, he's on my launch calendar so I know when he WONT be there. This way I can buy in advance to cover times when he's somewhere else, and I also avoid HAZMAT altogether. For me it's simple. Do I really wanna spend all that time with assemblies or do I wanna get some flights off. Many times, I see fliers only get 2 rockets off in the course of a day what with the details behind HPR prep and packing casings, whereas, I can 7-10 rockets off in relaxed mode. YMMV, but I really don't mind the negligible cost difference.

If you don't like spending a lot of time prepping, CTI reloads are absurdly easy and a few bucks cheaper than SU. They also have the added advantage of instant-on ignition... They're a lot more expensive than comparable AT hobby reloads though.

The main reason I started with CTI is sparkies & HPR without much in the way of new hardware. AT is $80+ for a single HPR case, where CTI is $80 for a full set of 1-6G hardware and delay drill. Plus, G80, G106, and H123 skidmarks with no waiver...

Loki reloads in 38+ are another good option. 38 thru most I's are HAZ free and reasonably priced.

qquake2k said:

But I will say, that the selection of SU motors is better than it used to be.

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For real Cap'n. I have always found an adequate SU motor for any of my MPR rockets. When in doubt (cause I'm still a little green with composites) Ken always saves the day. I needed a hot motor to get my 2 pound Beldar rocket off the pad, but I also wanted it to only go around 500 ft or so. (Maiden & heads up flight here.) For him it was a no-brainer for a suggestion so I got 2 F67-4's from him. Video to come after this weekend. Look for the Beldar build thread. Should be good for a laugh.

I fly AT reloads when I want to build motors and CTI "reloads" when I don't. As others have hinted at, CTI is a great option if you want to dip you toe into having a few cases laying around because they are cheap. Eventually you will have a case for every flight profile you want from both manufacturers. As far as real single use motors, I have yet to fly one although I'm not opposed.

I like to assemble reloads. There is satisfaction in it. In calculating the cost of hardware it should be considered that you can sell hardware when you no longer need it. So the true cost of hardware is the purchase price minus the resale price. If you buy used hardware the cost is even less. I mark my hardware with my name and phone number in case it is lost.

The adjustable delay is a big factor for me. With reloads, you can just buy the reloads long delays and adjust as needed. One size fits all. With SU you usually have to launch what you have which means hoarding motors with an assortment of delays. Consider how many rockets you lose - it happens, but it shouldn’t be so common that the loss of a casing would make the math on the price make su more economical.

“Both” is probably the right answer - at least until you have a range box full of casings. Sometimes you just want to pop a motor in and fly.

I still use SU for MPR stuff in the E-G range. So far just Estes BP and AT. These motors are cheap enough I'm not going to invest in hardware for reloads, and I don't fly them that often.

When I got into HPR I got into Loki for H and I 38mm reloads, and they're great. Simple, reliable, and cost-effective. I was apprehensive at first about doing reloads, but having used them they're a no-brainer.

Now that I'm getting into the I-K range I sprung for a CTI 54mm starter kit. Seems like it has have everything I need for any I-K launches, which is where I think I'll linger for a while. Simpler and more versatile than Loki thanks to their use of casing spacers. I also like that CTI reloads come with ignitors...sure they're cheap but it's one less thing to hunt down before a launch.

I use both, in both MPR and HPR. Once you get to the larger motors (54mm and above) the SU choices aren't very good, but at that point you're more into the variety of propellant types anyway. If you take care of your motor hardware, it will last for a long time and you'll eventually get your investment back vs. using SU motors. That being said, there are a few loads that are only available in SU, however... the Aerotech H115DM is an awesome motor for 29mm MD and smaller 38mm rockets with a 29mm motor mount. Ditto for the I205W, too. The 38mm AT "J" motors aren't bad, either.

I flew reloads last year Aerotech I300T, I bought a H219T DMS to save buying a casing for a cert attempt. I wanna try to fly the thing May 19th at North Carolina... All my engineering schoolwork crap got in the way for months.

Andrew_ASC said:

I wanna try to fly the thing May 19th at North Carolina...

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There are 2 launches I know of in NC on that date. Bayboro and ROCC in Midland. Which one are you attending?

Bayboro I think, I don't know much of Midland. There's just no darn waivers in TN right now.

i think the choice between SU and reload basically comes down to how much do you fly? I almost never miss a local launch and according to my EMRR stats fly 35 to 50+ flight a year. That has dropped some since I've gotten my L3 and started doing larger EX loads and all the DD prep required. For me, reloads are the only thing that makes sense. My cases paid for themselves with the lower cost of reloads vs. SU a long time ago.

Your situation may be completely different. If you only attend one or two launches a year and only make a half dozen flights, SU may be the better choice.

Some folks have talked about being able to fly more rockets in a day using SU motors. I used to fly 10+ flights a day using reloads. It is the rest of the rocket prep that takes more time than putting a reload together. With AT 29/40-120 Hobbyline reloads, I can clean the case and load up another motor in 5 minutes or less. It's not hard if you get enough practice. What keeps me from flying today isn't the reloads, the DD prep or anything to do with my rockets. I've been flying at the same site for 15 years and sometimes it 2 or 3 hours after the launch starts before I even get my stuff out of the car. Between catching up with old friends, making new ones, doing some LCO and RSO, sometime it's hard to finds time to fly.

Maybe I should start thinking more about SU.....

You can shorten the delay on a single use motor . Aerotech delays burn a 1/32 of a inch per second . You just need to drill it from the front of the motor.