Warlock Descent Rate?

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Here’s an update. I bought an 84” Spherachute. It’s a great looking Chute, and I knew it might be oversized, but I could reef it if necessary, or use a chute release.

I took the Warlock and the new Spherachute and the old standard 58” flat chute to LDRS. I did my L2 cert attempt with the Warlock while I was there. Unfortunately, it was a bit windy and there was a nearby wheat field where people were losing rockets, so I wanted to bring the rocket down nearby. That meant either using the new chute and reefing it, which I didn’t want to do, because I had never used the chute before, and wasn’t sure how much to reef it. Or using the new chute with a chute release, which it didn’t want to do in case of chute release failure. Or using the stock chute, which is what I decided to do.

The rocket did what it has it has always done on that chute. Descended too quickly and swung back and forth and around in a spiraling circle the whole way down. It hit the ground swinging quickly, and tore one of the Loc-n-tab fins right out through the cardboard! Cert fail!

I took the rocket back back to my table and did emergency field surgery on the rocket with some 30-minute epoxy, and put some fat epoxy fillets on that fin.

The next day was the I motor Monkey Loft. Sims showed my rocket going only 1,000 feet or so, so I wasn’t worried about drift, and I used the new 84” Spherachute. That chute is really beautiful! The hemispherical chute is also much more stable than the flat chutes, and the rocket hung still below the chute with no swinging. But it’s also definitely oversized. At times, it seemed like the rocket just hung there in the air, not descending at all. I should have got a 72”.

The next day, I used the 84” chute on my Comet rocket’s maiden flight. This rocket is 8oz lighter than the Warlock, so it’s pretty close. I decided to reef the lines a bit by tying then off by maybe 15” above the swivel. The chute seemed to take forever to unfurl after the ejection charge, and I did have a minor heart attack. But it opened eventually, and brought the rocket down very gently. This rocket has long, pointy fins that extend below the rocket, so a gentle landing is important. Worked great! But I think this rocket would do better with a 72” hemispherical.

Later that day, I did another monkey loft using the 84”. The chute did well, but I still got a small crack in one of the wood glue fillets. It was mostly just a paint crack, but I wanted to do another L2 attempt the next day, so I dug out the fillet, and made another fat epoxy fillet. I’m probably going to do that with all the wood glue fillets.

The next day was my second L2 attempt. It was very gusty, and I didn’t want to drift into the wheat on an ultra-slow descent from apogee. But I also didn’t want to land hard on the stock chute. And I didn’t want to reef the lines on the Spherachute, in case that’s what caused the delay in the chute unfurling on the flight of the Comet. So I tried the final option — 84” Spherachute, with Chute Release at 700’. Success! The chute release opened, the big, beautiful Spherachute opened, and the Warlock settled gently to the plowed field several hundred yards short of the wheat.

So, lessons learned. The stock Warlock chute tends to oscillate and gyrate and descend too,quickly. An 84” Spherachute is much more stable, but descends a bit too slow, and probably a 72” would be better. The Chute Release mitigates the 84” chute’s drift. The Warlock Loc-n-tab design allows a lot of flex, and a hard landing can apply a lot of torque with no lever arm on the inside to resist it, so epoxy fillets are probably a good idea.
Congrats on your successful L2 cert!

The over large chute (48” Classic Fruity Chute) paired with a Chute Release @ 500-700’ is what I’ve been using with great success on my Polecat Aero Goblin 5.5”. The Fruity Chutes descent rate calculator predicts 17fps descent but I’ve never verified it in practice...more of a “looks about right” thing.

BTW, Costco no longer sells “Apes”. Congrats on selling them out! Have to order mine via Amazon. Pink, of course, as my Goblin is Dayglo pink.
 
Congrats on your successful L2 cert!

The over large chute (48” Classic Fruity Chute) paired with a Chute Release @ 500-700’ is what I’ve been using with great success on my Polecat Aero Goblin 5.5”. The Fruity Chutes descent rate calculator predicts 17fps descent but I’ve never verified it in practice...more of a “looks about right” thing.

BTW, Costco no longer sells “Apes”. Congrats on selling them out! Have to order mine via Amazon. Pink, of course, as my Goblin is Dayglo pink.

Thanks! I was glad to finally have L2 out of the way. When I saw the Warlock with it's fin ripped out, I thought maybe I'd be out of luck for this launch, but once I examined it and got some advice on how to get that Loc-n-tab back into the inside of the body tube, I figured out a way to reglue it, and now it's the most rigid of the 3 fins. And honestly, i was concerned about repairing the rocket for the 2nd L2 attempt, but even more concerned I needed a Monkey Loft rocket for the next day!

I got my original 3-pack of monkeys at the Livermore Costco, but when I went back for more, they were out. I asked where else i could get them, and most stores had a zero inventory, but Danville had 120! How did they get so many? Never put all your monkeys in one barrel, Costco! But even if your local Costco did have some, I think you should definitely get the pink one online! There is a fluorescent green one online that caught my eye...

Your goblin is a 5.5"? it's a tight fit for the monkey and the chute in there, but some other monkey lofters did use 5.5" rockets and made it work. The 7.5" Warlock is plenty of room. I'm considering adding a removable payload section to my Warlock so I can dump out a whole platoon of para-monkeys in one jump! And the extra weight of the longer rocket would make good use of the 84" chute.
 
The stock Warlock chute tends to oscillate and gyrate and descend too,quickly. An 84” Spherachute is much more stable, but descends a bit too slow, and probably a 72” would be better. The Chute Release mitigates the 84” chute’s drift. The Warlock Loc-n-tab design allows a lot of flex, and a hard landing can apply a lot of torque with no lever arm on the inside to resist it, so epoxy fillets are probably a good idea.
My dad failed his first L2 attempt for the exact same reason (LOC Bruiser swinging under chute tore a fin out). I think the swinging came from two things:

  • Undersized chute --> it's gotta dump the oncoming air out faster than its shape allows
  • No spill hole --> the dumped air escapes over the side of the chute instead of through the top
Generally, it seems like if you're undersizing your chute, adding a spill hole improves stability a lot. (Alternately... Rocketman chutes dump air by "pulsing"; Recons/Skyangles spin.)

Upgrading the Bruiser to a 7' chute fixed both problems. (It came with a 6'.)

Looks like you found a happy solution too. Congrats on your L2! LDRS was fun.
 
My dad failed his first L2 attempt for the exact same reason (LOC Bruiser swinging under chute tore a fin out). I think the swinging came from two things:

  • Undersized chute --> it's gotta dump the oncoming air out faster than its shape allows
  • No spill hole --> the dumped air escapes over the side of the chute instead of through the top
Generally, it seems like if you're undersizing your chute, adding a spill hole improves stability a lot. (Alternately... Rocketman chutes dump air by "pulsing"; Recons/Skyangles spin.)

Upgrading the Bruiser to a 7' chute fixed both problems. (It came with a 6'.)

Looks like you found a happy solution too. Congrats on your L2! LDRS was fun.

Thanks! LDRS was a great time, wasn't it?

I think you are right about what causes the swinging. I've used flat chutes in most of my rockets, because that's generally what they come with, and mostly they haven't swung around like the Warlock. But I think the standard 58" Warlock chute is undersized for the Warlock, so as you said, it has to dump air by "burping" out the side, and that sets up an oscillation that just keeps amplifying. It could be that just upgrading the size would've stopped that problem, and a 70" flat from Top Flight would probably have done it. But the Spherachute also has a spill hole, and that seems to really calm things down a lot. Plus it looked great! I like the chute and will get use out of it for certain kinds of low flights, but I may need a smaller one for the majority of flights, if I don't want to use the chute release every time.

Did you meet the Rocketman kid, Buddy, at LDRS? He did his best to sell me one, and he almost did it! But they didn't have the colors I wanted in the size I needed. They seemed pretty affordable, and I liked the design for certain kinds of rockets. I may end up getting one of those eventually.

And now I've been looking at these really odd, big, donut-shaped, annular chutes with a GIANT hole in the middle made by Bama Recovery. Those are pretty unique. That might be a good match with my sci-fi Comet rocket...
 
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