Estes V2 #3228 Modded build

This is yet another one of my modded kit builds. This kit is intended to fly on most 24mm composite loads hence no motor block and the addition of an Estes 24mm motor retainer, will probably handle most all AT and most CTI 24mm pretty well with the exception of some of the hard hitting F's and G's (think Vmax's). Recovery will be via a thin mill nylon semi-hemispherical chute, JLCR and nomex. The nose cone will have the base removed to add noseweight and move the chute up HED style. According to sims the about 2ozs of noseweight will allow me to fly even the longest CTI 24mm with just over 1 caliber of stability margin.


Pic 1: Tailcone cleaned up and ready for assembly, fins match sanded and papered (papered with self adhesive label paper) with edges CA'd, parts weighed. Papering fins added about 8-10g to the total fin weight.

Pic 2: Small centering ring tacked with CA to get position of Estes motor retainer right.

Pic 3: MMT, small CR and fins all assembled at this point with Loctite Plastic Epoxy (for paper to plastic and wood to plastic joints) and Titebond II (fins to mmt). At one point a large CR was taped into the correct position on top the tail cone to align the motor tube properly.

Pic 4: Internal shot of fincan, one of the nice things about V2 fins is its easy to get them on straight using aluminum angles across the trailing edges and clamps, the fin roots were bonded to the mmt using the double butter method. The large CR's were left off until the internal fillets had been done with Loctite Plastic epoxy.

Pic 5: Large CR's added, under the lower one is a piece of BT50 split similar to the one between the CR's, it may or may not add any additional strength but I do it anyways.

Pic 6: External fin fillets done with BSI 20min epoxy mixed with Cabosil and Phenolic Micro-balloons, total addtional weight for the external and internal epoxy fillets was about 3-4grams or so (6 grams of epoxy including JB Weld on motor retainer). Radius on the fillets is about 1/8", they look kind of ugly here but the fillets are actually pretty smooth, the smearing is from an alcohol soaked fingertip which grinds the red epoxy into the paper staining it.

Pic 7: block added for lower rail-button.

Pic 8: Airframe attached to fin can using both TBII (upper CR) and Loctite Plastic Epoxy (lower CR and tailcone shoulder). Airframe is wrapped with self adhesive label paper and the seam CA'd and sanded smooth, no spirals to fill on this baby!

Pic 9: internal TBII fillets (still wet) around the upper Centering Ring ID and OD.
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With your comment about “the longest CTI 24mm” above, I had to go lay a 6-grain case on my V2.....boy if you do that it will be cozy in there. Obviously you’re looking to make it capable of handling much more power than I was (reference jeffyjeep’s YORF thread in today’s other V2 thread).

Even at the Sod Farm a G in this thing (6-grain case) is going to go a long, long, long way.

A bit over 3k feet according to sims, I like having the option of larger motors. Most of the time it will be flown on AT 24/40 and AT 24/60 cases. I did briefly consider making the mmt a 29mm, but then it requires a bit more noseweight due to the short fat concentration of weight in the rear of the rocket. The long thin cases move the CG foward better than a fatter case of the same weight.

Okay, finally the banishment from the shop is over so I went and made the recovery anchor/chute shelf for this rocket. As I mentioned earlier this rockets parachute will be located in the shoulder of the nose cone or even in the nosecone as the chute shelf only sits 2" below the upper section of the airframe, the nose cone has had the base removed so it won't be as cozy as BEC was thinking (at least I think thats what you were referencing Bernard). By moving the recovery gear up I not only reduce the extra nose weight but I also don't have to try packing a chute so it deploys reliably from around a motor casing. The max length casing that will fit in this rocket is approximately 11" long (maybe 11-1/4" max). A CTI 24mm 6grain casing is only 8.98" plus .25" for the closure.

Left Pic: Recovery Anchor and Chute shelf assembled and ready to install.

Right Pic: RA/CS installed, the nose cone shoulder was used to push it into position for a perfect nose cone fit. The extra ring of coupler will be drilled and CA hardened for the upper rail-button.

Rich,

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. But by using that nose cone you’ll have all kinds of room (relatively speaking). I hope I get a chance to see this work.

As for my V2, I think I’ll stick with D12s and E12s....though it would be tempting to put in one of those F44-7Ws if flying it at your field.....

BEC said:

Rich,

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. But by using that nose cone you’ll have all kinds of room (relatively speaking). I hope I get a chance to see this work.

As for my V2, I think I’ll stick with D12s and E12s....though it would be tempting to put in one of those F44-7Ws if flying it at your field.....

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First time for a G ought to be interesting, but I will mostly be flying it on Aerotech E's and F's.

Bit more last night and today, I worked 60 hours this week so getting rocket stuff done was kind of tough.

All pictures are showing the nose weight installed (approximately 2ozs.). The nose weight is held securely in place by the small diameter brass pins that cross at 90 degree angles in the tip and the shot is small enough to fall past the pins. This type noseweight retention is demonstrated in one of John Cokers videos iirc. The eyebolt is simply held in by a single nut on each side of a washer then the whole nut and washer setup buried in the epoxy. After the epoxy cures the brass rods are filed flush and the whole tip re-sanded, once painted the rods will not be visible until the rocket eventually crashes or gets the paint stripped off the nose.

The rocket is currently in the shop with two coats of Rusto 2in1 filler primer, tomorrow will be sand and possibly re-coat with regular Rusto Auto Primer. Color coats at this point I am leaning towards a WWII Naval Aircraft themed rocket in either a Midnight blue (F4U Corsair) or the Sea Blue color found on F6F Hellcats prior to the end of WWII. My inspiration for the color scheme comes from a Bullpup done a couple of years ago by another TRF'er called something like the Bridge over Tokyo Ri (due to the photobucket link breakeage the pictures of his beautiful rocket are no longer viewable). If anyone knows Mlee it would be awesome if he returned to us and re-linked the finished rocket pictures, but here is a link to his build thread https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?126852-quot-Bridges-at-Toko-Ri-quot-PML-Bullpuppy/page2

Missed a few steps as we go along.

Pic 1 vinyl paint mask applied over the base flat white colorcoat, the green vinyl is regular CriCut vinyl designed and cut on my wifes Cricut Explore Air.

Pic 2 Decals on white background paper designed using Inkscape, I made lots of different sizes of each so I would have others for any other project that might strike a desire.

Pic 3 The dark/midnight blue colorcoat sprayed and the vinyl masks removed, it turned out pretty well. For the first time (for me) the pucker ring around the Centering Ring is actually visible in the final project caused by the use of regular wood glue, not really an issue but it is noticeable as a wavy appearance immediately below the U in US NAVY.

Pic 4 Decals applied, all in all I like the way it turned out, hopefully it gets it maiden flight next weekend, along with the Green Goblin sharing the picture, both just need rail buttons and recovery to be ready.

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I know this thread has been dormant for a while but hopefully it can be revived for a quick question - can someone who’s used the Estes 24mm retainer post a couple pix of their installation? I’m starting my V-2 build soon and really want to make that modification...thanks!!

What exactly are you looking for Scott, the only mod necessary iirc for the 24mm motor retainer was moving the motor tube to the rear about 3/8" to allow for more length to glue the retainer onto. The retainer ribs can be sanded off and the retainer painted the color of rocket if desired.

Sounds like what I needed - I dry fit the retainer but I haven’t trimmed the tail cone so I wasn’t sure how far back to go. Thanks!

Scott_650 said:

Sounds like what I needed - I dry fit the retainer but I haven’t trimmed the tail cone so I wasn’t sure how far back to go. Thanks!

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iirc I did not trim the tailcone at all, in one of the first pictures you can see a line aroud the MMT that most likely corresponds to the location of the base of the retainer. I simply glued the rear CR to the oppoaite side of the line and built the model from there. I cannot remember if I used a longer mmt or not (it does look like a section of BMS T50 though).

The retainer fits just fine in the boattail without having to use a longer MMT or sand the nubs from retainer. If you’re installing an engine block you’ll have to bump it forward a bit to make room for an Estes E.

Kind of hard to make out cause it’s painted black.

Great information guys - thanks so much. No engine block going in my V-2, I like using masking tape thrust rings for my rockets with retainers - both factory and the ones recycled from drink bottles.

rharshberger said:

A bit over 3k feet according to sims...

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@rharshberger, would you happen to have a sim file handy for this rocket? What motors have you flown it on so far?