The "NEW" Estes Request Thread...

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I flew a 4" diameter Goblin at NSL last year on a 29mm H motor. Since it uses the same nose cone as the Mega Der Red Max it was a no brainer to build one.

John Boren

Cool! We've got Estes' attention.

Back in the US, I've got a pair of MDRMs... One was damaged in shipping, the other was it's replacement. The damaged one was then used to start a 4" Goblin. I didn't get to finish either before I came to China.

BTW: I'd love to see a PSII based Optima too. I've got sims of a 29mm variant in my .ork files page.
 
Its probably worth pointing out that Estes being under new ownership is unlikely to mean that they'll suddenly start dumping money into new, expensive, complicated, and high skill level builders kits or restoring classics. I know that K'tesh started this thread as an enthusiastic wish list, but these kind of threads often develop a life of their own and get taken too seriously. I'd be as happy as the next TRF member if they hired John some help and suddenly re-released all my old favorites, etc. But we have to remember that folks like TRF members are a fraction of the big-picture market, and if the new owners have a lick of business sense, they'll take a long, hard look at what works and what doesn't with the company, and will do their best to grow the brand rather than cater to us oddball enthusiasts. All too often, this sort of enthusiast ownership leads to companies being run into the ground after spending too much time and resources on the super-fun stuff and not enough on the things that actually bring in the bulk of the revenue. If they do even a portion of the things that people are wishing for here, they'd better have a sound business case for doing it, IMHO. Just keep that in mind...

That said, I'd love to see a return of the sci-fi / spaceplane rockets of the late 70s to mid 80s, the ones with cool nose cones. Starship Nova is a good start. Now, how about something using the PNC-50SP nose cone, like maybe Falcon Commander or Starhawk? Or update the PS1 Jayhawk & Terrier-Sandhawk kits?
 
MDRMs oh yeah! Actually I just built a 2.6 and 4.0 pair of MDRMs, but they were, um, fiberglass, and the big one will probably fly on J-K motors. Alas even the original MDRM is problematic since Estes doesn't really have a motor in the current lineup that can lift it well.

Mostly I hope that the Langfords can transform Estes into a modern internet business with a fantastic website and great logistics. The era of hobby store distributors and print catalogs is gone, the bulk of distribution is going to be big-box stores and direct e-sales. The statement from Eliis sounds like code for "we're moving some (or most?) production back to Penrose". If that makes economic sense, there will be lots of benefits.

Maybe they will switch to composite motors - black powder is a regulatory pain and a manufacturing safety issue. Solving the starter issue would be great but the rocketry industry is too small to carry weight with the regulators.

Expanded TARC support would be a potential long term recognition builder, but not a serious revenue source per se as there are maybe 10-15k TARC flights per year. Even if Estes made the appropriate composite motors and hit 50% market share it would be 1-2% bump to total revenue.

Anyway it's going to be interesting to see how things proceed.
 
My wishlist:

  • Now that I have two young rocketeers in the NARTREK cadet program, I'd like to see more kits that challenge them as they progress. My eldest is on a two stage rocket build for Apollo and there isn't anything that isn't a fin can build that doesn't break when you look at it funny.

Check out the Estes Extreme 12. Great 2 stage rocket. Very sturdy kit and comes with 24mm motor retainers. Can also easily handle AT 24/40 and 24/60 reloads.
 
I'm not sure I understand why what you're proposing would make for an easier or better migration path than the existing (extensive!) selection of skill level 1 or even skill level 2 kits. As a kid, the idea of scratch building or designing my own rockets never even entered my mind until I had built several kits.

Funny. Scratch building was the FIRST thing that entered my mind after I received my first Estes catalog and saw that loose components were available. If only my workbench hadn't also been the kitchen table. My parents put up with a lot of glue spills and foolishness with single-edged razor blades, but the workspace was shared with siblings and used for meals, so was only available for projects of one- or two-day duration. Otherwise, I'd've built the coolest-ever original designs. <grin>. Honestly, for my parents "mail order" was synonymous with "rip off" and the parts assortments weren't in the stores where we shopped -- so I got kits.


Pointless personal anecdote out of the way, a relevant personal anecdote: I had the opportunity to watch a mess of 3rd and 4th graders launch Vikings and Alphas last summer. I'd guess about half of the kids did some kind of customization on the Alphas (some to the point that they were not flyable). Likewise, about half of the Vikings had three or four symmetrically mounted fins, the rest seemed to have been attempts to find a 49th fin configuration (One kid went to the trouble of cutting additional fins out of card stock to make strakes -- it was beautiful).

Take that FWIW -- about half of the first time builders would (possible) have been thrilled to have been handed the Launcher's Assortment. The kids who built according to plan seemed to be having exactly as much fun as the kids who customized.

John Beans made an interesting point in a recent post HERE. As long as we are offering unsolicited advice and compiling unrealistic wish-lists, a non-pyro deployment option for LPR rockets would be very cool.
 
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1/100 N1 Moon Rocket, 1/70 Saturn 1B with improved fins, 1/100 Saturn 1B, 1/100 Saturn V, Falcon Heavy, 1/54 twin Engine Gemini Titan would all be great, please keep Little Joe II kit going to. I would like to say that I'm am glad that we are in good hands now!!!
 
1/100 N1 Moon Rocket, 1/70 Saturn 1B with improved fins, 1/100 Saturn 1B, 1/100 Saturn V, Falcon Heavy, 1/54 twin Engine Gemini Titan would all be great, please keep Little Joe II kit going to. I would like to say that I'm am glad that we are in good hands now!!!
This too, plus spacex bfr.
 
Darkstar motors were made in the mid-to-late 90s as part of North Coast by Estes licensing agreement. Estes made them in-house. Great motors that were very reliable. Barry Tunick killed the agreement when sales reached the level of having to pay royalties to the NCR owners. Another reason why we were glad to see Barry go.
Matt Steele and I flew on of my F62-6 motors at NARAM 55 in 2013 and it was perfect.
The Aerotech/Estes relabeled composite motors were more recent.

Chas
 
Darkstar motors were made in the mid-to-late 90s as part of North Coast by Estes licensing agreement. Estes made them in-house. Great motors that were very reliable. Barry Tunick killed the agreement when sales reached the level of having to pay royalties to the NCR owners. Another reason why we were glad to see Barry go.
Matt Steele and I flew on of my F62-6 motors at NARAM 55 in 2013 and it was perfect.
The Aerotech/Estes relabeled composite motors were more recent.

Chas

Thanks for the clarification. They do look a lot like the newer SU motors from AT, I wonder if it is the same tooling.
 
Bring back the MDRM with a less expensive 1/8 ply ttw fin, I don't care about a "scale" fin with all that expensive balsa. A Goblin won't happen though due to licensing to LOC unless the MDRM NC returns in parts. But think about all the scratch upscales (Bandit, Goblin, Patriot...) you could build!
 
Camera-mounting idea: Some sort of minimal plastic sleeve or shroud that clips to the top of the body tube. Sell the shrouds in BT-60 and up*. The camera has a shoe on the bottom that clips to the shroud.

Camera system is $49.99 and includes 3 shrouds**, additional shrouds for $7 each.

Camera has a 100% foolproof way to see ON, OFF, RECORDING - none of this 808 silliness with one LED that might flash or not if the moon's in the right place.

I bet these would sell like hotcakes.

If Estes can custom-engineer and sell their altimeter (which afaik was not a rebrand/repackage of something else, someone actually designed that and built it for Estes) then I don't think that engineering a custom camera module would be THAT much more difficult, one that was designed for rocket use and not a hackish "well there's this thing that kind of was designed to look like a key fob and it's a spy camera but it works for rockets?" thing.


*- I think anything smaller than that and you could run into instability issues with retrofitting it. Also a note that you can't launch anything less than a C motor.
**(but will readily be available at retailers for $35-40 because Hobby Lobby/acsupplyco)
 
Camera-mounting idea... shrouds in BT-60 and up*... anything smaller than that and you could run into instability...
Yeah, I taped one to a Wizard and it was stable enough but it spins like crazy, probably wake interference with the fin, so the footage is not really any good. Works much better on something the size of the Amazon.
 
I would like to see the Sidewinder and the Skywinder. Both kits are hard to replicate as they have unique parts.
 
please, Please, PLEASE make a detailed scale model of the SPACEX Falcon Heavy...with at least a 24mm motor mount!
https://www.spacex.com/falcon-heavy

I’m guessing there is licensing involved here. And Space X will sell you a flyable falcon 9 model if you have the $$$.

But yeah, more scale and semi-scale models Estes! I’m a sure these aren’t the biggest sellers or money makers, but they’re the only packaged cardboard and balsa kits I would consider buying anymore.

If Elon is smart, I’m sure he’ll give you a good deal on the licensing... it’s good marketing.

And decals... I would buy packs of assorted water slide decals..
 
They wouldn't. I think its pretty well established that kits are means to sell motors. That was why I speculated before that the loss of the AT partnership had bearing on their interest in continuing the original PS2 kits; without having access to suitable motors, there's no motivation to sell such a kit.
 
They wouldn't. I think its pretty well established that kits are means to sell motors. That was why I speculated before that the loss of the AT partnership had bearing on their interest in continuing the original PS2 kits; without having access to suitable motors, there's no motivation to sell such a kit.

Mad cow, Mac performance, loc precision, and so on... they don’t make motors.
 
My two suggestions for "bring-backs" are:
A new PS-II style Optima. Same as they did for the Super Big Bertha.
Magnum #2032. Please.

My first mid-power was a Vigilante #1278 upscale. For the 29mm BP motors. A PNC-70AO would have lots of upscale kit potential.
 
Mad cow, Mac performance, loc precision, and so on... they don&#8217;t make motors.

All true. But that they don't have the same business model as Estes (of which we're obviously specifically discussing), who does make motors. So, not an apples-apples comparison.
 
All true. But that they don't have the same business model as Estes (of which we're obviously specifically discussing), who does make motors. So, not an apples-apples comparison.

Yes of course. However, the point I’m making is that there is obviously a way to make a business out of selling kits without being a motor manufacturer. In fact Estes could easily continue with their current model of selling kits in order to sell their black powder motors while also selling bigger kits to make a profit. As do the others I mentioned.

Maybe they don’t want to be in that business and that’s fine. But it’s definitely possible.
 
I remembered that Estes sold a camera-equipped multi-rotor for a while and tried to look up the specs on the camera. The "drone/heli" and "airplane" links on the Estes site now both report "no products in this category". Is this a consequence of the Hobbico liquidation?
 
I remembered that Estes sold a camera-equipped multi-rotor for a while and tried to look up the specs on the camera. The "drone/heli" and "airplane" links on the Estes site now both report "no products in this category". Is this a consequence of the Hobbico liquidation?

I think it might be a consequence of the new owners mission statement:

"Estes Announces Ownership Change
________________________________________
NEWS PROVIDED BY
Estes Industries LLC
________________________________________
PENROSE, Colo., April 17, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Estes, the world leader in model rocketry, announced today that it is under new ownership.
Estes Industries LLC has purchased all of the assets and operations of the former Estes-Cox Corporation from Hobbico Corporation of Champaign, IL
effective April 12, 2018.
Ellis Langford, 33, has been named as the new President of Estes Industries LLC. Langford announced the purchase stating, "For 60 years, Estes products
have been the foundation for the hobby and sport of model rocketry. Our new leadership team will concentrate on returning Estes to its core business
of developing, manufacturing, and selling the finest rocket motors, kits, and launchers in the world.
We are working to ensure the smoothest possible
transition from Hobbico to the new Estes, and to fully support our customers, vendors, and employees." Estes was founded in 1958 by Vernon and Gleda Estes.
Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. The company willcontinue to base its headquarters and operations in Penrose, Colorado – "the model rocket capital of the world".
Estes Rockets continues to accept orders at www.estesrockets.com. "
 
I remembered that Estes sold a camera-equipped multi-rotor for a while and tried to look up the specs on the camera. The "drone/heli" and "airplane" links on the Estes site now both report "no products in this category". Is this a consequence of the Hobbico liquidation?

I think it might be a consequence of the new owners mission statement:

"Estes Announces Ownership Change
________________________________________
NEWS PROVIDED BY
Estes Industries LLC
________________________________________
PENROSE, Colo., April 17, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Estes, the world leader in model rocketry, announced today that it is under new ownership.
Estes Industries LLC has purchased all of the assets and operations of the former Estes-Cox Corporation from Hobbico Corporation of Champaign, IL
effective April 12, 2018.
Ellis Langford, 33, has been named as the new President of Estes Industries LLC. Langford announced the purchase stating, "For 60 years, Estes products
have been the foundation for the hobby and sport of model rocketry. Our new leadership team will concentrate on returning Estes to its core business
of developing, manufacturing, and selling the finest rocket motors, kits, and launchers in the world.
We are working to ensure the smoothest possible
transition from Hobbico to the new Estes, and to fully support our customers, vendors, and employees." Estes was founded in 1958 by Vernon and Gleda Estes.
Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. The company willcontinue to base its headquarters and operations in Penrose, Colorado – "the model rocket capital of the world".
Estes Rockets continues to accept orders at www.estesrockets.com. "

The film cameras that Estes produced were developed "in house". The digital cameras were sourced externally. The problem is that to keep the prices down, they'd still need to source them externally as they lack the time and resources to do that in house now. What I'd love to see is a kit that would allow the user to (at their own expense) dismantle a digital camera and mount it into their kit. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
 
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