Hobbico Sale of Estes

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I hope the new owners enforce the MAP policy that Estes sent out to all distributors. Let's make this hobby healthy again.
 
I hope the new owners enforce the MAP policy that Estes sent out to all distributors. Let's make this hobby healthy again.

Can you elaborate on that? what it he MAP policy?

Personally, I would like to see them change their policy, and ship "outside" the lower 48.. At least to Canada..
 
Can you elaborate on that? what it he MAP policy?
Minimum Advertised Price. Basically price-fixing, like Horizon Hobby has done.

Is the hobby unhealthy? I would say no. Would MAP make it healthier? I would say no. It hasn't helped most hobby shops from going out of business that I can see.
 
Minimum Advertised Price. Basically price-fixing ...

That certainly is one perspective: Here's the Wiki definition:

"A minimum advertised price or MAP is the practice of a manufacturer providing marketing funds to a retailer contingent on the retailer advertising an end customer price at or above a specified level."

Glorious: Are you connected with Estes or Aerotech, or the hobby industry in general ?
 
Estes was not happy to find out AT was selling the Estes branded motors direct and told them to take a hike. Those kits were always good sellers.

And, I guess, AT returned the favor by expanding its own menu of 29mm MMT rocket kits, and then went out and bought Quest.
Fast forward to now, and AT is now competing with Estes in A-D 18mm motors space under "Q-Jets" brand:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2017/02/quest-q-jets-engines-introduced-at.html


Not a lot of love lost between those two companies...
 
...

Not a lot of love lost between those two companies...


Perhaps that's true but not something I was aware of, at least not to any great degree. As small as our pond is it seems kinda silly. But business is business I guess.


What expanded menu of 29mmt rocket kits are you referring to ? I know the Q-Jets are coming "real soon now" but I haven't seen any where I can buy one yet. :)
 
Estes was not happy to find out AT was selling the Estes branded motors direct and told them to take a hike. Those kits were always good sellers.

I'd like to hear more about that first statement. That would be a real bone-headed move by AT if that were true.

The kits might have sold well through you, but you were selling to a narrow and pre-selected market. In the atmosphere that Estes occupies, and at Chinese production quantities, they apparently needed to see a ton more sales.
 
I'd like to hear more about that first statement. That would be a real bone-headed move by AT if that were true.
Certainly Aerotech continued to sell the original AT-labeled versions of the same motors that were rebranded Estes (e.g., G40, E30, F50). I'd have thought that was part of the original agreement.

I bought my share of Estes-branded AT motors from local vendors, but Estes made some major missteps with that IMHO (high prices, no igniters.)
 
Certainly Aerotech continued to sell the original AT-labeled versions of the same motors that were rebranded Estes (e.g., G40, E30, F50). I'd have thought that was part of the original agreement.

I bought my share of Estes-branded AT motors from local vendors, but Estes made some major missteps with that IMHO (high prices, no igniters.)

...and the seperate igniters they sold were terrible with 12V club-style launch systems. They popped so quickly the motors rarely lit.
 
I don't think Estes' arrangement with AT had exclusive rights to those motors. AT should be able to continue selling AT-branded G40 and G80. What Glorious's statement indicated was that AT sold Estes-labeled product (without revenues going to Estes). Huge no-no if true.

But I still think they just didn't sell to Estes' expectations.

The separate ignitor issued was a confusion for users.
The hazmat issue was a confusion for retailer/distributors, and online end-users.
Finally, mixing a black powder line with the composite line was yet another confusion. F15 couldn't lift some of the earlier rockets.
 
AeroTech made the motors and shipped them in bulk quantities to Estes.
Estes applied the motor labels and packaged the motors.

Why no igniters in the Estes labeled AeroTech motors?
When Estes submitted the motors for DOT classification, they forgot to put igniters in the packages.
Estes would have to re-submit the motors with igniters for another round of classification.
Estes management decided not to re-submit the motors.
 
I do not think Aerotech EVER sold Estes labelled motors directly.

i do believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that Aerotech took the E30 motors off the Valuerockets discount website while they were selling E30 motors to Estes and that this may have been part of the agreement - to not discount them through direct sales.

As for the Sonic Igniters - I think that the first batch I had were not so great, but later I bought a bunch and they were virtually flawless at igniting motors. I provided a few dozen to TARC teams and they worked first time/every time. And they were nice and skinny for easy installation. Pity they were not included with the motors....

AeroTech made the motors and shipped them in bulk quantities to Estes.
Estes applied the motor labels and packaged the motors.

Why no igniters in the Estes labeled AeroTech motors?
When Estes submitted the motors for DOT classification, they forgot to put igniters in the packages.
Estes would have to re-submit the motors with igniters for another round of classification.
Estes management decided not to re-submit the motors.
 
What I would really like to see is the return of being able to order any Estes part, not just left overs or whatever is laying around, airframes and centering rings I can get from at least 3 vendors but nose cones and other unusual parts are kit only or just unobtanium. While the MDRM might be expensive as a kit the nose cone and decals should be reasonable by themselves, thats what builders thrive on is the parts not necessarily the whole kit.

I for one, see Penrose as a full manufacturing facility. That's what it was built for.
Perhaps the new owner will take advantage of that, and return Estes back to a place you can visit...and take tours.
Buy kits out of the lobby, which the parts are made and put into kits on site. Bringing jobs back to the USA!


OK, so the TRF advice to Estes adds up to ...
1). Increase inventory cost by stocking all sorts of weird @#$%
2). Increase manufacturing cost by paying higher US minimum wage to package the kits in US vs. doing it in PRC
3). Decrese revenue by only selling individual parts, and not the entire kits

Damn, guys, why are you so hell-bent on driving Estes out of business?!?
:lol:

Luckily, we know new owners are smart enough to do what's right for the business, and not a few of us, TRF loonies... myself included.
:smile:


And...Bring back the Yearly Catalog!!! And keep it online as well.

I agree that being good business people first is a key thing for the longevity of Estes Industries.
One thing that I wonder about is if the last hobby distributor standing (Horizon) will handle Estes (or Aerotech/Quest for that matter).

Amen to being good business people first!

I don't personally buy Estes kits anymore, but my kids still love them. Estes is also the gateway into the rocketry hobby for all the new folks, and that's why I wish them all the best.
Actually, strike the first sentence - I hereby commit to go and buy an Estes kit tonight, to put my money where my mouth is!

w.r.t. to distributor/ catalog model - its significance has been greatly diminished with the advent of the direct-to-consumer Internet channel.
Does anyone remember anything they bought from a print catalog?
Sears catalogs anyone?

What will Horizon do with Estes now?
Probably the same thing Hobico did before - not much, and no-one will care.

How many of us even knew Hobico owned Estes before the bankruptcy filing?
Did we buy any other Hobico trinkets just because we were into Estes and other rocketry stuff?
That's NO and NO for me.

You still need retail stores (large chains as well as mom'n'pops) to entice new folks into the hobby, and Estes does have that angle well covered.
You also need an extremely well managed direct-to-consumer (DTC) online outlet. Estes can improve in that department, as it only sells few things online exclusively at MSRP prices. I can always buy Estes kits cheaper elsewhere. There is really no need to support a parasitic industry of online discount kit resellers that add zero value to either Estes, or the customers.

Estes could expand DTC offerings with exclusive kits in the future.
Possibly expand its catalog of complementary electronics gear, high power motors, and sell HP kits.
Ditch drones and zip disks.
Or do none of the above, and simply stick to the bread and butter, by going nuts selling directly to every elementray / middle school and boy scout pack in the country.... and then internationally.

Whichever path they take, I have full faith that Estes will be around for many years to come, and will keep the hobby strong and well supplied with new recruits.

a
 
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i do believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that Aerotech took the E30 motors off the Valuerockets discount website while they were selling E30 motors to Estes and that this may have been part of the agreement - to not discount them through direct sales.

Yep, I do remember that.

As for the Sonic Igniters - I think that the first batch I had were not so great,

I got a bunch from JumpJet as a beta test, and they worked about 50% of the time.
 
Why no igniters in the Estes labeled AeroTech motors?
When Estes submitted the motors for DOT classification, they forgot to put igniters in the packages.
Estes would have to re-submit the motors with igniters for another round of classification.
Estes management decided not to re-submit the motors.

Ok, *that* was the bone-headed move right there!
 
afadeev said:
What will Horizon do with Estes now?
Probably the same thing Hobico did before - not much, and no-one will care.I knew Hobbico purchased Estes about the time that it actually happened

My question about Horizon is simply that - as the last big hobby distributor standing - whether or not they will distribute Estes (or Aerotech/Quest) products to hobby shops that get their stock from Horizon (which includes all those around here) or whether there will no longer be rocketry products available at those stores. Three I can think of have pretty substantial rocketry sections now.

This quite a different thing from the actual operation of Estes Industries, which Hobbico had been doing from afar for the time they owned it.
 
A press release from Estes Industries LLC.

Estes Announces Ownership Change
________________________________________
NEWS PROVIDED BY
Estes Industries LLC
________________________________________
PENROSE, Colo., April 17, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Estes, the world leader in model rocketry, announced today that it is under new ownership. Estes Industries LLC has purchased all of the assets and operations of the former Estes-Cox Corporation from Hobbico Corporation of Champaign, IL effective April 12, 2018.
Ellis Langford, 33, has been named as the new President of Estes Industries LLC. Langford announced the purchase stating, "For 60 years, Estes products have been the foundation for the hobby and sport of model rocketry. Our new leadership team will concentrate on returning Estes to its core business of developing, manufacturing, and selling the finest rocket motors, kits, and launchers in the world. We are working to ensure the smoothest possible transition from Hobbico to the new Estes, and to fully support our customers, vendors, and employees."
Estes was founded in 1958 by Vernon and Gleda Estes. Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. The company will continue to base its headquarters and operations in Penrose, Colorado – "the model rocket capital of the world".
Estes Rockets continues to accept orders at www.estesrockets.com.
For further information contact Tina McGovern at [email protected].


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/estes-announces-ownership-change-300631645.html
 
"Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. "

How extremely cool is that?
 
"Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. "

How extremely cool is that?

So cool that it sets the bar for metaphors describing coolness.

"There comes a time when all the cosmic tumblers have clicked into place and the universe opens itself up a few seconds to show you what’s possible."
 
A business idea for the PSII line. Offer a couple easier to assemble PSII models(perhaps E2x) through the usual retail channels. Then create a line of PSII kits intended for DTC sales or perhaps through select online vendors or really any body who wants to carry that line. Then, include literature in every kit Estes sells that details mid/high power rocketry and highlights their PSII line as the best way to get into it. Have some spectacular images of big models lifting off and such to show what’s possible in the hobby. Include information for NAR and TRA and so on.
 
"Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. "

How extremely cool is that?

That's the definition of cool.

So cool that it sets the bar for metaphors describing coolness.

"There comes a time when all the cosmic tumblers have clicked into place and the universe opens itself up a few seconds to show you what’s possible."

So cool that you could that you could keep a side of beef in it for a month (or longer). So hip that it has trouble seeing over its pelvis.
 
In a way, it's too bad that Estes broke up their partnership with Aerotech to resell the AT E/F/G motors. Estes could have had a huge presence in TARC... beyond selling bags of parts. A TARC package with the parts, an Estes altimeter (yes, they'd have to get the NAR to certify it, but they presumably have some influence), and an assortment of AP motors would have been a huge seller. Instead, the teams are all going out and either buying kits just for the parts, or ordering parts from somebody like BMS or Discount Rocketry, and AT is getting all the juicy motor revenue. Estes needs to be a key player in programs like TARC and Scouting, because those programs drive a relatively high number of purchases compared to the average non-hobbyist consumer.
 
Mary Roberts posted this on Facebook yesterday:

Estes Announces Ownership Change
________________________________________
NEWS PROVIDED BY
Estes Industries LLC
________________________________________

PENROSE, Colo., April 17, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Estes, the world leader in model rocketry, announced today that it is under new ownership. Estes Industries LLC has purchased all of the assets and operations of the former Estes-Cox Corporation from Hobbico Corporation of Champaign, IL effective April 12, 2018.

Ellis Langford, 33, has been named as the new President of Estes Industries LLC. Langford announced the purchase stating, "For 60 years, Estes products have been the foundation for the hobby and sport of model rocketry. Our new leadership team will concentrate on returning Estes to its core business of developing, manufacturing, and selling the finest rocket motors, kits, and launchers in the world. We are working to ensure the smoothest possible transition from Hobbico to the new Estes, and to fully support our customers, vendors, and employees."

Estes was founded in 1958 by Vernon and Gleda Estes. Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. The company will continue to base its headquarters and operations in Penrose, Colorado – "the model rocket capital of the world".

Estes Rockets continues to accept orders at www.estesrockets.com.
For further information contact Tina McGovern at [email protected].

View original content: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/estes-announces-ownership-change-300631645.html

SOURCE Estes Industries LLC

Related Links
https://www.estesrockets.com
 
In a way, it's too bad that Estes broke up their partnership with Aerotech to resell the AT E/F/G motors. Estes could have had a huge presence in TARC... beyond selling bags of parts. A TARC package with the parts, an Estes altimeter (yes, they'd have to get the NAR to certify it, but they presumably have some influence), and an assortment of AP motors would have been a huge seller. Instead, the teams are all going out and either buying kits just for the parts, or ordering parts from somebody like BMS or Discount Rocketry, and AT is getting all the juicy motor revenue. Estes needs to be a key player in programs like TARC and Scouting, because those programs drive a relatively high number of purchases compared to the average non-hobbyist consumer.

Well, since John Langford is involved in TARC and has been for some years (he will be RSO on one of the two ranges at the final this year, and those lovely overhead shots of the range that have been in Sport Rocketry are taken from Aurora Flight Sciences drones), this is certainly something that might come up now that his son is president of the company (as noted in the press release George quoted and samb posted further up in this thread).

I disagree on the Estes Altimeter, though. It’s the fussiest to get a proper reading from of anything less than $100 that’s on the market today and would be a real source of frustration for TARC teams I have worked with. There’s a reason TARC uses PerfectFlite products exclusively the past several years.
 
"Mr. Estes has agreed to serve on the Board of Advisors for Estes Industries LLC. "

How extremely cool is that?

Vern Estes on your Advisory Board— cool as... can’t think of anything witty. It’s just pretty darn cool. Looking forward to good things coming out of Penrose. Hopefully JumpJet gets to run wild.
 
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