Estes upgrade ideas

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Hello all,

Typical story, mid 40s, always liked rockets, but have not launched any since I was a kid. Began watching YouTube videos, joined Tripoli and NAR and local clubs, attended a launch, now I have lots of questions. I just ordered a couple of Estes kits and was wondering what “Upgrades” or refinements people usually make. Alpha 3, Bandito, Gnome kits are on the way and I already have the Amazon and CrossFire.

Do people usually swap out the rubber band shock cord with something else? What material? How about the plastic parachute? Thank you for all the info.
 
Typically we switch out the rubber shock cord for a longer kevlar one if that is desired, Apogee Rocketry among others sells small diameter kevlar for this pupose, or even 100lb kevlar kite line. The plastic chute can be switched with thin mill nylon ones like Top Flight Recovery sell ( small tubes require thin mill as standard nylon is too bulky).
You can also ditch recovery wadding ( Estes sheet type) and use cellulose blow in insulation ( its sold in a bale at Home Depot/Lowes for about $10 you can get a lifetime supply, do not get the fiberglass type for environmental reasons) we refer to it as Dog Barf cuz when its wet thats about what it looks like.
 
Hello all,

Do people usually swap out the rubber band shock cord with something else? What material? How about the plastic parachute? Thank you for all the info.

Kind of depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the upgrade.

If you haven't found it already, Chris Michielssen's blog is a good place to look for building techniques

https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com

He authored the building techniques pages on the NAR website

https://www.nar.org/educational-resources/model-rocket-building-techniques/
 
You could put in an ejection baffle, then you don’t need as much wadding. You can attach the Kevlar shock cord to the baffle or the engine mount thrust ring instead of the white glue folded paper anchor glued to the side of the body.
 
Welcome to the forum...

Upgrades? There's always redshifting kits... Building a "C" powered rocket to take a "D", or a "D" to take an "E", etc. And let's not forget cloning. Many classic designs are being recreated either as retro reproductions (such as Semroc's classic Centuri and Estes lines, or Estes' Phoenix Bird (a BT-55 version of the Centuri BT-56 kit)), reissues (eg. Estes Citation Patriot reissue, Estes Der Red Max), and BARs' clones of old favorites using modern kits as sources of parts.
 
If you have a Wal-mart need by, you can find an elastic substitute in the sewing section for the rubber band shock-cord. For small Estes size rockets I buy the 1/4" width.
 
The kits you listed don't really lend themselves to alot of modification IMO. I would swap out the 12 inch parachute in the Bandito for a nice crepe paper streamer, 4 or 5 feet oughta bring it down in much more reasonable distance from the pad. I like to use sewing elastic for shock cords as well, at least twice the length of rocket. I've found the 1/8 inch size to be effective for similar sized kits. Takes up less space in the airframe than 1/4 inch. The thin mil nylon chutes are great if you want to go that route. I reinforce the shroud line attachment points of Estes plastic parachutes with those round adhesive paper hole thingies. Also I use a 4 foot steel rod from my favorite big box home improvement store as an upgrade over the Estes standard 3 foot rods. Welcome to the party, what are you building for L1 ? :)
 
For 24mm and above motor tubes I like to use wood rings in place of card stock supplied. to these I usually mount a length of Kevlar string for the recovery mount.
 
Welcome to the zoo Greg! This forum itself is a searchable treasure trove of ideas and techniques. Somebody already linked Chris M's instructional material; you should also check out Apogee's videos on https://www.apogeerockets.com/Advanced_Construction_Videos/all ; they cover everything from basics to competition to high power. And yeah, ditch the rubber shock cords in favor of kevlar and/or sewing elastic. For 1/2" tubes (Gnome) the rubber is just too bulky anyway. Then upgrade your building techniques and learn to build low power models fast with CA (super glue), plastic CA (Plasti-Zap) and 5-minute epoxy (not Devcon, use Z-Poxy or West G5). Minor caveat, don't argue with the guys that disagree with that last bit :cool:And go find and fly with your nearest club. Sky's the limit, have fun!!
 
The only thing the Alpha III needs besides care in getting the upper centering ring tight against the fin can when you install the motor mount in the fin can (be sure to test fit and if necessary stretch the centering ring over the nose cone or peel a layer out of the inside so that it's an easy fit - particularly if you use wood glue) is a longer shock cord. I have taken to using a foot and a half or so of Kevlar in the regular tri-fold paper shock cord mount and then tying the supplied shock cord between it and the screw eye on the nose cone. I've done the Kevlar on the motor mount thing and it usually burns through somewhere between the 15th and 20th flight. But using the tri-fold gets it far enough away from the ejection charge that this is not an issue.

I also like to clean up that little lip on the trailing edges of the fins, just to reduce the drag. With that little change I have measured flights over 1200 feet on a C6-7 via a FireFly altimeter stuffed up in the nose cone, in spite of the extra quarter of an ounce that the Firefly adds. Swapping the 'chute for a 2x20 or so streamer can help those 1200 foot flights land closer to the pad, as long as the landing surface is not rock hard.

Oh....I add an engine block to an Alpha III when I build one - and there is a use for thin CA in hardening the motor tube around the slot where the motor hook goes through the motor tube.

The same thing could/would apply to the Crossfire ISX - make the shock cord longer and otherwise fly it as is. That is a nice performing and neat looking model.

I agree with the comment just above also - wood glue - especially on the Crossfire ISX. Though with the Gnome and the Alpha III if you can fine some Pacer Formula 560 that is ideal for paper-to-plastic joints, both the body tube to fin can joint on the Alpha III and attaching the fin can over the body tube on the Gnome.
 
Thanks for the info, I have quite a bit of build experience with Carbon Fibre sailplanes and RC aircraft in general. In fact, I have already started to design a complete Carbon Fibre clone of an Estes Alpha..... Just my style to take a relatively inexpensive vehicle and over engineer it and quadruple the price tag.

For L1 (and beyond) I have a Mad Cow 1.6” Mini DX3 Fiberglass build starting, a Mad Cow 2.6” DX3 build starting, and a Mad Cow 4” Super DX3 Fiberglass build starting. Yes, ok, I have a bit of a DX3 problem.

At this point, all of my Low power stuff will get upgraded to Kevlar cord and Nylon chute or streamer. I really like Top Flight Recovery for this. Any Balsa fins that I have will be surface coated with paper to add some strength. That is probably enough work for now, time to go launch some stuff.
 
Ah - being a sailplane guy you can see why I cringe at square-edged fins that some do on their rockets as well as that little molding lip on the TE of fins on the Alpha III (you’ll see what I mean when you get it).

I imagine you could get a TFR thin mil 9 inch chute in an Alpha or Crossfire ISX reasonably easily and that would really be enough unless you’re launching over pavement or hard-packed dry desert. Don’t skimp on wadding when you fly ‘em that way. You don’t want to melt holes in those lovely ‘chutes.

A carbon fiber Alpha would be really cool. Note that there are three basic nose cone shapes it has had over the years (well, counting the few years in the early 1990s when you could get an Alpha III nose cone in an Alpha kit). But later for all those minutiae. Have some fun with what you have and have coming now first :D.
 
With the larger body tubes I like to do kevlar / elastic shock cords plus a Nomex burrito instead of recovery wadding. The smaller ones I've all left pretty much stock.
 
If you have a Wal-mart need by, you can find an elastic substitute in the sewing section for the rubber band shock-cord. For small Estes size rockets I buy the 1/4" width.

+1. the stuff is cheap, easy to find, and the knit fabric part of the elastic gives you some redundancy in case the rubber part of the elastic breaks. Also scorching and fraying will tell you it's time to replace the elastic before it fails in flight.
 
One more upgrade: Paper the fins. it's easy to do, adds strength (welcome in case of rough landings) without adding a lot of weight, and gives you a nice smooth sealed base for painting.
 
Upscaling & downscaling.. take something you like, make it bigger, make it smaller, make it .. make a family of them!

get Open Rocket, or Rock sim, and design to your heart's delight!
 
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