Hardpoint Anchor attachment options

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I considered posting this in the Recovery forum but since this is more of a build/structural question, I'm putting it here.

I'm making my way through my Adventurer 2.2 build (last two internal fillets just injected) and now am contemplating how I'll attach the 54mm Giant Leap aluminum hardpoint anchor that I'll be using to hang my drogue laundry from. Typically this is epoxied into the motor tube, but since I need way more room in the fin can, I got a larger size that I'll attach directly to the body tube just above where my longest motor casing ends.

I've chosen this option because I want to have a removable anchor point for my recovery harness and allow for the option of motor eject or motor eject backup.

My first thought was to drill and tap three holes and attach with some machine screws - ideally countersunk for a streamlined profile. Only problem with this is it's thin-wall FG and the anchor is just as thin. We're looking at 1mm total (.47mm for the body tube and .53mm for the wall of the anchor). Is there even enough material to tap threads into?

I wish I had some extra body tube to practice/test this on...

Another option would be to use self-tapping or sheet metal screws and call it a day.

Considered removable rivets, but the only option I could find is the good old vinyl ones we all use. My concern here is that the heat from the ejection charge would weaken/melt them. If that's not an issue, this would probably be my best option.

In Wayco's Mongoose 54 build thread he uses "pem nuts" to attach his motor retainer - more or less what I'm doing - but I'm not sure if the anchor walls in mine will be thick enough to hold one? https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?130487-Wayco-s-RW-Mongoose-54-build

A similar option would be to drill my screw holes and JB Weld some weld nuts inside the anchor. Ideally I'd have to bend the flange on the nut to match the curve of the anchor (any ideas on how do to that?) and with a pan or truss headed screw outside there should be plenty of mechanical hold.

Currently my favored option is the simplicity of machine screws, but I would prefer the ease (and look) of plastic rivets if they would hold up to the ejection heat and are sufficiently strong to anchor my recovery gear.

Otherwise maybe weld nuts would be the way to go.

Here's a picture of the anchor with the switch band around it so you can get a visual of the thickness.

IMG_6061.jpg
 
I prefer to epoxy tee nuts inside, and use stainless steel button head cap screws thru the airframe. You will find that tee nuts are relatively soft, and will easily form to the inside of the retainer when you tighten the screws.
 
I’m probably missing something here but if the airframe is 54mm and the anchor is 54mm, why aren’t you just epoxying it into the body tube? With that type of anchor point using motor eject shouldn’t be a problem and you’ll always need an attachment point regardless. Right?

But I agree with cherokeej about the epoxied TNuts and stainless buttonhead screws. They work great. In my experience (which is limited), if using epoxy to attach the tnuts, I’ve had better luck w JB Weld than Aeropoxy. Seems aeropoxy is a bit brittle. It’ll hold but you may have to re attach if they are broken loose.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
I considered posting this in the Recovery forum but since this is more of a build/structural question, I'm putting it here.

I'm making my way through my Adventurer 2.2 build (last two internal fillets just injected) and now am contemplating how I'll attach the 54mm Giant Leap aluminum hardpoint anchor that I'll be using to hang my drogue laundry from. Typically this is epoxied into the motor tube, but since I need way more room in the fin can, I got a larger size that I'll attach directly to the body tube just above where my longest motor casing ends.

I've chosen this option because I want to have a removable anchor point for my recovery harness and allow for the option of motor eject or motor eject backup.

My first thought was to drill and tap three holes and attach with some machine screws - ideally countersunk for a streamlined profile. Only problem with this is it's thin-wall FG and the anchor is just as thin. We're looking at 1mm total (.47mm for the body tube and .53mm for the wall of the anchor). Is there even enough material to tap threads into?

I wish I had some extra body tube to practice/test this on...

Another option would be to use self-tapping or sheet metal screws and call it a day.

Considered removable rivets, but the only option I could find is the good old vinyl ones we all use. My concern here is that the heat from the ejection charge would weaken/melt them. If that's not an issue, this would probably be my best option.

In Wayco's Mongoose 54 build thread he uses "pem nuts" to attach his motor retainer - more or less what I'm doing - but I'm not sure if the anchor walls in mine will be thick enough to hold one? https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?130487-Wayco-s-RW-Mongoose-54-build

A similar option would be to drill my screw holes and JB Weld some weld nuts inside the anchor. Ideally I'd have to bend the flange on the nut to match the curve of the anchor (any ideas on how do to that?) and with a pan or truss headed screw outside there should be plenty of mechanical hold.

Currently my favored option is the simplicity of machine screws, but I would prefer the ease (and look) of plastic rivets if they would hold up to the ejection heat and are sufficiently strong to anchor my recovery gear.

Otherwise maybe weld nuts would be the way to go.

Here's a picture of the anchor with the switch band around it so you can get a visual of the thickness.

View attachment 341762

You could up the screw count to 6 on your recovery point , you could keep the screw count on the hard point to 3 , then take a 1 inch long slice of coupler and screw that right in front of the hard point , or you can simply glue it in.

Eric
 
I'd like to make this removable, so gluing it in isn't an option on this build. Once I get 100% comfortable with electronic dual deploy and won't need a motor eject option, I can remove the anchor and use a threaded forward closure on my motor to attach the harness. (advantage - longer motors than the 5 grain I'm sizing this one for).
 
Got it. Not sure if that anchor point is real hard to drill through but I suppose I’d probably drill one hole through both the airframe and anchor point. Then I’d use a Tnut backwards inside the anchor point and attach it with a small amount of JB and then secure it in place with the button head screw (careful to not epoxy the screw into the tnut). I’m guessing it’ll be tight workspace in there so you might have to tape the TNut in place. Once it’s in there good and set up, I’d go ahead and drill the other 2-3 holes (I usually do the number of screws in line with my fins) and repeat the process. It would hold it in place good, look pretty good, be easy and easy to cover the holes once you move away from that configuration.


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Another thought, since this is temporary, you could skip the JB weld and just use very strong double sided tape (that 3M stuff) to hold the TNuts (or just regular nuts) in place until you get the bolt on them. The idea is to provide a solid anchor point and the epoxy really doesn’t do anything but hold the nut in place. The strength is from shear and the bolts going through the airframe and anchor. I’d think 3 x #6-32 bolts would be plenty strong for what you’re doing. And then you could remove the nuts from the anchor, fill in the holes with epoxy and go a different direction once done.


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Another thought, since this is temporary, you could skip the JB weld and just use very strong double sided tape (that 3M stuff) to hold the TNuts (or just regular nuts) in place until you get the bolt on them. The idea is to provide a solid anchor point and the epoxy really doesn’t do anything but hold the nut in place. The strength is from shear and the bolts going through the airframe and anchor. I’d think 3 x #6-32 bolts would be plenty strong for what you’re doing. And then you could remove the nuts from the anchor, fill in the holes with epoxy and go a different direction once done.


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Exactly what I was thinking as well - the adhesive (tape or jbweld) is really only to hold it in place so the screw can line up. I think this may be my best bet.
 
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